AAExecPlatFlier

lkar

RedSun

Maybe I did not make it so clear. There are GCs that you can buy at grocery stores. I get 5 US points if I do that. There is no fee for some of the GCs at grocery stores. That is the best to do with Chase Freedom.

Other than that, it is just generic spending to me to meet some SUB spending. Not talking about other kinds of GCs with specific stores and reward cards.

We can use Paypal check out to pay tax, and send money to friends with the Freedom card.... But the earning is lower.

CMack

Thanks, that's good to know. I will give it a try. Glad that you were able to get the credit!

lkar

Perhaps we are talking past each other. But I'm trying to make an important point that often gets overlooked about this supposed "5x" card, and actually any quarterly bonus cards. They are not really 5x in the sense that everyone thinks about it. The value of using a chase freedom card depends completely on what card you would otherwise use and what you're buying.

You have to distinguish between two situations: One in which you're completely manufacturing spending. For example, if you're buying grocery store vanilla gift cards to get 5x, cashing them out using money orders, and then using the proceeds to pay back the card. Or, in my case, if you're just making a paypal transfer to get the miles for the fee. This is creation of points you didn't have, and the relevant question is how much in fees (and I guess time and effort) did you use to purchase your chase points. In this circumstance, you are truly getting 5x, and the relevant question is how much are you paying to get those 5x.

The second situation is where you use the chase freedom card to buy goods or services. This includes all gift cards, unless you're buying the gift cards to manufacture spending by liquidating them to pay off the card. It doesn't matter if its a dominos card or a vanilla card that you later use to buy stuff. If you're buying gift cards at grocery stores to use them, then you are most definitely not truly getting 5x by using the freedom card. What you are getting is the delta between the 5x and the points that you would have gotten to buy the same goods or services that you buy with the freedom or with the gift card you buy with the freedom.

What is that delta? Well, it depends on what other cards you have in your wallet. Assuming everyone has at least one other card that earns at least 1x, then the most you are ever getting by using the freedom for the quarterly bonus in lieu of that other card is 4x. And most of us are getting far less than that. So, let's say you buy a $500 gift card at the grocery store with freedom to get the 5x. Great. If you use the gift card to buy a money order that you deposit in your bank for cash, you have just purchased 5x miles for whatever the fees. If you use that gift card for anything else, you need to understand what you did to understand whether you are using your cards most efficiently. If you paid for a cruise and you have the sapphire reserve, you really only got 2x.

Many don't understand this very simple point. And if one doesn't understand it, one can't properly analyze the question whether paying $48.30 to manufacture 7,500 UR by using paypal makes sense.

RedSun

If I can't find the $500 GCs, I'll bit the bullet and get the $200 GCs from grocery stores. The fees are like $3.65 for $200, which is 1.8%. There are still the opportunities to pay tax via Paypal, Paypal money transfer etc.

sdsearch

You seem to confusing 5x (which simply means that the cards earns 5 times the points at these categories compared to what it earns at other categories), which applies no matter what, with the actual value of the those points relative to what you might have earned otherwise.

Furthermore, it gets very complicated to analyze numerically if the other card you could have used earns something completely different. In my case I have an Amex Everyday card which can earn 2 to 2.4 MR points per dollar, but only usable at Amex MR partners such as Delta, where I sometimes find award flights, but less often than with United.

Then UR points are transferable to United, but not to Delta.

I don't put a different numerical value on United vs Delta, because the differences between the two are in how often I can use each, not how much value I get out of each mile. I never redeem for anything other than saver business class fares, and when they exist they're similar between Delta and United, but they're much rarer at Delta than United. I don't know how to put a precise numerical value on that difference in how I can use each.

So I'm guessing that 5 UR points are more valueable than 2.4 MR points, and thus for this quarter I'm shifting my "true grocery" spend from Amex Everyday, but I'll shift back next quarter. (By "true grocery", what I mean is that I found that a stand-alone 7-11 which codes as 'grocery" for Amex didn't earn 5x on Chase Freedom, and I can't figure out how to get Chase Freedom to show me what category it thought it was. So for that 7-11, I'll continue to use an Amex MR card.

But precisely how much more valuable 5 UR points are than 2.4 MR points for me, I can't begin to calculate, because I can't begin to calculate the value of MR points to UR points for me.

And I don't have any cards that normally earn anything other normal 1x (when paying directly) at the online camera stores where I used PayPal for some lens purchases at the start of April. I find it real hard to find cards that earn extra at camera stores, but that's where a lot of my non-Amazon shopping takes place. Amazon gift cards are at lots of stores which rotate into 5x categories, and Amazon itself is a 5x (or once 10x) category with Chase Freedom some quarters. So that's why I distinguish between Amazon and
non-Amazon shopping.


EDITED TO ADD ON 4/13:

I don't do MSing at all. So my answer was not about MSing, in case your post was (i couldn't tell). I may sometimes buy Amazon gift cards to shift spending to later, and I once bought VGCs to pay insurance that accept debit but not credit cards, but I've never yet turned a debit card back into cash, I'm too busy churning with "natural spend" to do MSing (giving that I have a big stash of miles & points built up already anyway, just not necessarily the best balance).

lkar

RedSun

@ikar, I got your point. If I get 4 Freedom cards that I can't optimize 100%, a MS style spending is the best way to go. Even if I get only 0.5 UR/$ spending. But if I get enough category spending, I'd max the category spending since that is the best way to use the spending. My next card can be a 3 UR (like CSR card), but I do not care since I optimize my 5x UR spending. You are correct that MS and category spending are totally different. I believe if you get enough spending, you'd want to optimize all the category spending and won't pay 2.9% Paypal fees.

lkar

Yeah, I agree generally. Good discussion.

RedSun

I generally value UR higher than MR, like 2.2 vs 1.6. The best use for me is UR -> Hyatt and MR-> Kriflyer or Delta. Of course we value the points differently depending on the royalty programs.

I've converted FU cards into Freedom cards. There are quite a few other cards that I can catch with non-category spending.

Steve in Olympia

Sb2023

Sorry if this has already been answered but I can not find it.
Does anyone know if you use shop though chase and check out with PayPal (using CF) if u get the 5% for PayPal AND whatever bonus the store offers.
Thanks

bgriff

Sb2023