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Old Jan 19, 2017, 8:44 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
Please read this Wiki before posting questions in the thread.

Do not post offers or requests for referral links in this thread! The proper thread for referral offers is here.
All Chase issued cards are here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap

This thread--a continuation of previous discussions through May 2015 and December 2016--focuses on general Chase policies & practices for new applications. For information on specific Chase cards and their bonuses/terms/benefits, see the following threads and their associated wikis: Table of Contents
  1. Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?

  2. What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?

  3. Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?

  4. How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?

  5. How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?

  6. Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?

  7. Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?

  8. Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?

  9. I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?

  10. I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?

  11. I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?

  12. How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?

  13. Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?

  14. Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?

  15. Useful Chase telephone numbers

Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?
Chase does not have a known limit. However, several reports (for example) indicate that Chase is highly sensitive to multiple applications within a short time period, and that the second (or subsequent) applications run a substantial risk of being denied. In many cases, this is likely related to Chase's practice of allocating a large credit line (up to an applicant's personal maximum) when approving a new card such as the first application in a series. (See also the discussion below concerning aggregate Chase credit lines.)

What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?
Starting in May 2015, Chase began denying applications for its own personal cards (e.g., Sapphire Preferred, Freedom, Slate & Freedom Unlimited) if the applicant's credit report shows that she or he opened 5 or more credit cards with any card issuer in the prior 24 months ("the 5/24 rule").

For a few days in early September 2016, Chase included explicit language ("You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months") on the application page for the Sapphire Reserve card--and then promptly removed it. The absence of this language on landing/application pages for the CSR or any other Chase card is not a reliable indicator of whether the 5/24 policy applies.

See the next section for co-branded cards exempt from the 5/24 policy, and the later section discussing potential ways around 5/24.

Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?
Previously the rule did not apply to applications for the Ink Plus business card or to co-branded cards such as United, Hyatt, IHG, etc. However, on May 22, 2016 Chase extended its 5/24 rule to cover Ink business cards and some co-branded cards. (Note that there were premature reports that Chase Ink Plus would be made subject to the rule in March 2016 (which did not happen), and that all co-branded cards would follow in April 2016 (also did not happen).)

Although we had numerous reports of applications prior to May 22 being denied for a United/Hyatt/IHG/WN card by a CSR citing the 5/24 rule, the available evidence strongly suggested that those applicants had other serious issues--multiple Chase applications in a short period; large existing Chase credit line--and that overzealous CSRs gratuitously (and erroneously) invoked the 5/24 rule in the past as an additional supposed justification for the denial. Thus, it is difficult to separate such false positives from any change in Chase policy.

Instead, the most useful data points are those where an applicant is approved for a Chase card despite being over 5/24. Since May 22, 2016, we have such reports for these co-branded cards (in order from oldest to newest for each card):
For a longer list of cards apparently not subject to 5/24, check this link:
In November 2018, Chase seems to have possibly expanded 5/24 to more cards, possibly including some mentioned above. See this link:
Please follow discussion in the thread for current updates.

How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?
The 24-month count includes personal cards opened at other banks, and even cards on which the applicant is only an authorized user and not the primary cardholder. Chase has been extremely inflexible with this policy, with agents stating that there is nothing they can do to circumvent this restriction. However, in some cases Chase may reconsider a denial if the applicant has <5 new cards excluding cards on which s/he is an authorized user. You may need to escalate to the next level of customer service agent, as many front-line agents seem to be unable or unwilling to remove the authorized user accounts from the count.

Note:

How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?
In February 2017, a FTer reported a successful application a day or two after dropping from 5/24 to 4/24. However, because Chase sometimes approves applicants who are at 5/24 exactly (see above), this data point does not conclusively prove that Chase drops cards from its calculation on the exact 24-month anniversary of the previous bonus.

Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?
No. Chase uses the information from your credit report, and closing an account doesn't make it disappear.

Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?
As to targeted mailers, we have insufficient anecdotal evidence to reach any reliable conclusions. (Reports suggesting no exemption from 5/24 here and here.)

There have been reports of people with more than 5 cards opened in the last 24 months being successful if they are already pre-approved for the card in question. To find out if you are pre-approved, you can call or go into a branch to ask. Success stories appear to be connected to Chase Private Client (CPC) status and the rollout of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. In-branch pre-approvals (showing a green screen on the banker's computer) result in automatic approvals. Some (but not all) CPC clients had success in recon calls[[I]citation needed].

Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?
It depends. A Chase card may be "churned" when an entirely new version becomes available. For example, business cards are distinct from personal/consumer cards. Note that simple variations among bonus offers do not amount to new versions/products for purposes of this rule.

Beginning in 2014, Chase began including explicit language in most of its offers, such as the following:
This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months.
Effective August 2018, Chase imposed stringent additional restrictions on receiving the signup bonus for any version of the Sapphire card. See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 and the master threads for each card (listed above) for details and discussion.

There are four key considerations in determining whether you can churn a given card:
  • The 5/24 policy discussed in detail above.
  • The 24-month bonus waiting period--in the case of Sapphire cards, the collective 48-month period--is measured not from the date of your previous application (or approval date, if different), but instead from the date you received the signup-related bonus on the previous card, which may be 3-4 months later than the approval date. The same rule applies regardless of the type of signup bonus received (points, miles, or free-night certs); anniversary benefits unrelated to spending requirements, such as annual IHG & Marriott certs, do not count as signup bonuses.
  • If you still have your old card of the same type, you're ineligible.
  • Chase's policy does not indicate whether there is also a minimum waiting period between cancellation and reapplication, and there is not yet sufficient anecdotal evidence from FTers to draw firm conclusions. At a minimum, a prudent churner will wait at least a week or two after cancellation before reapplying so that all of Chase's systems fully reflect that closure. (See first bullet point above.) At least one FTer has reported re-applying successfully 14 days after canceling the previous card.
Finally, note that if you reapply too soon, Chase may still issue you the new card. (This differs from some other card issuers, which may deny such applications outright.) In this case, Chase typically notifies you by letter within a month or two after approval that, as a previous cardholder, you will not receive the bonus a second time.

I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?
No. Being an additional user on someone else's account poses no bar to applying for that same card & bonus, except insofar as such cards may count toward the 5/24 rule (as discussed above).

I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?
Yes.

In the past, the conventional wisdom among FTers was that you were more likely to hurt your chances by closing an account or reducing CL unilaterally. However, substantial evidence from 2014 onward strongly indicates that Chase is increasingly likely to reject applications (or at least not auto-approve them) where an applicant has an existing total credit line that is high compared to his/her income & spending patterns. (For many members, the threshold appears to be in the $45K-60K range, but that is highly speculative.)

Recent reports suggest that closing accounts and/or voluntarily reducing credit lines increases the odds of auto-approval or in-branch pre-approval. (You can do either by calling or simply sending a secure message through your Chase online account. You do not need to provide a reason for the request.) For best results, keep at least $5K-10K in excess credit; if your application is not approved, you can always contact the reconsideration department and offer to reallocate that portion of your existing credit line. Note: despite allowing credit line to be moved between personal and business accounts in the past, Chase is no longer permitting such reallocation in either direction.

With respect to timing, it is better to reduce any CL as soon as you can conveniently do so, e.g., after meeting the bonus spend on a card you do not plan to use regularly thereafter. (Do not reduce CL on a given card if it would increase your "credit utiilization"--that is, the ratio of outstanding balance to CL--above ~30%. A high credit utilization number is a red flag for banks and can adversely affect your credit score.) Waiting until one's next application to lower a CL is less than optimal, as the reduced CL is not immediately recognized by all of Chase's systems.

There is no known minimum wait between lowering a CL and having the freed-up amount become available for purposes of a new application. A prudent applicant will, as recommended above, plan well in advance; failing that, an applicant would be wise to wait at least 24 hours between lowering a CL and applying for a new card.

I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?
It may be better to avoid calling Chase unless your application is denied. Many recent calls on pending applications led to denials, and many people report having success letting applications work their way through the system. Be patient. Time is on your side; increasingly, Chase CSRs are not.

If you do call, expect extensive and possibly hostile questioning. Be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for more credit, past credit apps for both Chase and other banks, income, business finances, etc. Know your CLs with Chase before you call so you know which card/s you are willing to decrease the CLs on. If the app is for a significant other who dislikes such calls, they can authorize you to speak on their behalf and hand the phone over to you.

How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?
Just send Chase a secure message (SM) through your online account. Although the deadline should in theory be N months from the date of approval (not the date of application or card activation)--where N is the number of months specified in the offer--Chase typically pads this period to account for the time required to fabricate and deliver physical cards. For example, a recent "3-month" deadline was in fact 114 days, as confirmed by Chase's SM confirmation.

Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?
Bonus points typically accrue at the close of the billing period in which you incur the corresponding charges. Points should appear in your hotel/airline account within a few days thereafter.

NOTE: If you complete your required spending in the last 7-10 days of the statement period, the bonus may not post until the following month's statement, even if the regular per-dollar points post on the first statement. This is normal behavior for Chase and is not worth a phone call.

Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?
Useful Chase telephone numbers
(800) 432-3117 – General Application Status Line, automated
(800) 436-7927 – Alternative General Application Status Line, automated
(888) 609-7805 – Alternative Personal Reconsideration line with live rep
(888) 269-8690 - Business Credit Card Application Status Line, automated
(800) 453-9719 – Business Credit Card Reconsideration Line with live rep
(800) 955-9900 – General Card Services and Application status, automated
(888) 298-5623 – Credit Reallocation Office (Personal cards)
(800) 453-9719 – Credit Reallocation Office (Business cards)
(888) 622-7547 – Executive Offices
(877) 470-9042 – Personal Application Verification line with live rep
Twitter: @ChaseSupport
Note: In the past, automated telephone status reports stating that Chase would notify you in 2 weeks often resulted in an approval, whereas the "7-10 days" telephone recording often indicated imminent denial. In 2016, this pattern became increasingly unpredictable, with many applicants receiving approval despite an earlier "7-10 days" automated telephone message. As a result, automated telephone responses should not be regarded as reliable indicators of an application's likely outcome.
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Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017-2019

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Old Jun 13, 2018, 10:22 am
  #1786  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: SPG, Hyatt Diamond Member, Club Calrson Silver, AA, Hilton Gold, BA
Posts: 476
So my wife is now 0/24 rule from chase. Which means we can apply for many credit cards out there. We are super excited because this will allow us to get the companion pass again. We plan on applying in late 2018 to take advantage of 2019-2020 companion pass. Now she currently has a personal premier southwest credit card. If you were us, would you cancel this card now, so that way we can apply for it again at the end of the year. She's had this card for over 2 years so we would qualify for the bonus again and I dont think it will hurt her credit by that much. thoughts?
livestrongforever is offline  
Old Jun 14, 2018, 3:44 am
  #1787  
dv1
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 9
Need advise:

Recently double dipped both the Sapphires.

Instant approved on both using referral links, standard 50K URs.

Just noticed I am been targetted for the 60K + 5K CSP when i logged into my Chase account.

Should i send a secure message asking to see if they will Match the targetted offer ( its been less than a week since approval ), or doing so might draw attention to the fact that i got both Sapphires and they might shut it down?
dv1 is offline  
Old Jun 14, 2018, 10:55 pm
  #1788  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Programs: SPG Plat
Posts: 792
Originally Posted by blitzen
CreditKarma is not a real credit score so who knows what your "real" number is (as there are various "real" Fico credit scores but it depends on which one is being used - some credit cards include Fico scores but somehow they never agree with each other)
You chances are pretty low as my CreditKarma (when I was checking it - gave up) was always higher than the FICO reported by the banks (due to having their credit card) so my guess would be the FICO Chase will pull is below 700 and that should be too low for a premium card with a slim file like yours.
Best chance is going to a branch and speak to the banker (maybe he can add the high income and reason for short credit in a way that improve your chances)
Just as an update in case it is useful for anyone going forward - I managed to get approved for this (80k offer) with 4 months of credit history, CreditKarma score of 690 and income of ~200k.
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rooivalk is offline  
Old Jun 15, 2018, 6:13 am
  #1789  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by dv1
Need advise:

Recently double dipped both the Sapphires.

Instant approved on both using referral links, standard 50K URs.

Just noticed I am been targetted for the 60K + 5K CSP when i logged into my Chase account.

Should i send a secure message asking to see if they will Match the targetted offer ( its been less than a week since approval ), or doing so might draw attention to the fact that i got both Sapphires and they might shut it down?
I wouldn't. Near zero chance of Chase matching anyway. There's only downside.
pallhedge is offline  
Old Jun 24, 2018, 3:40 pm
  #1790  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: PIT-SCE-AOO-PHL-NYC-WAS
Programs: free agent
Posts: 1,036
I tried to call recon lines, but it keep ask me for my current card # and I ask for live representative but all i get is generic customer service representatives (I called chase main / alternate automated #).

In past, those recon lines would automatically ask if I am calling about my credit card application status but now it seems like another # for generic customer support services.
washeelers747 is offline  
Old Jun 25, 2018, 7:49 pm
  #1791  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 30
Applied CIC on 5/8/18 - Approved.
Applied CIP # 2 using EIN with self referral on 6/14/18. Applied for this card within a short period (more than 30 days though) as I am moving to a different location. Chase did not approve this card due to the following reasons.

1. Insufficient Business Revenue .
2. Not enough time has passed since your last Account with us was opened.

I don't think it was declined due to Insufficient Revenue as I had put $15,000 Revenue in the Application with 5 Years in Business.
When I called Recon earlier I was told they cannot do anything as my application was reviewed by the 2nd level reviewer before declining. I want to call Recon again to see if I could find a helpful person this time but can someone please suggest a good reason that I can provide for applying a second card within the short time that might convince the agent to approve? My credit score is above 825 and at 2/24.
TIA!
9thSense is offline  
Old Jun 26, 2018, 1:23 am
  #1792  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by 9thSense
Applied CIC on 5/8/18 - Approved.
Applied CIP # 2 using EIN with self referral on 6/14/18. Applied for this card within a short period (more than 30 days though) as I am moving to a different location. Chase did not approve this card due to the following reasons.

1. Insufficient Business Revenue .
2. Not enough time has passed since your last Account with us was opened.

I don't think it was declined due to Insufficient Revenue as I had put $15,000 Revenue in the Application with 5 Years in Business.
When I called Recon earlier I was told they cannot do anything as my application was reviewed by the 2nd level reviewer before declining. I want to call Recon again to see if I could find a helpful person this time but can someone please suggest a good reason that I can provide for applying a second card within the short time that might convince the agent to approve? My credit score is above 825 and at 2/24.
TIA!
May I ask if the CIC was opened with your SSN, or EIN? Regardless, you're beyond 30 days, so I'd just call some more until finding a more helpful recon rep.

Standard reasons for wanting the card: like the benefits, organize business spending on different accounts, etc.
prech is offline  
Old Jun 26, 2018, 4:40 pm
  #1793  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 30
Thanks, will give another try.
Applied CIC with SSN.
9thSense is offline  
Old Jun 28, 2018, 10:29 am
  #1794  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 29
Help with future card planning and 5/24 Rule

Here is my list currently with the month of my first statement

SW Business 8/15
SW Premiere 8/15
Hyatt 8/16
Chase Sapphire Reserve 10/16
Business Ink Preferred 4/17
(Pending) Wells Fargo Business Card (6/18)

As it stands this means my current 5/24 count is AT 1? The CSR card.

Objective: CP, Domestic Travel, Hotel Stays
I run a small business so hitting bonuses isn't hard.

I need to cancel and reapply the Southwest cards by years end. So I need to save two spots or one spot of my 5/24 count for the end of this year?
Assuming 2 (from a list I saw) unless Business doesn't count.

Assume 2: My count would be at 2 of 5 because the CSR count falls off in October when I'd apply for Southwest Cards

Upgrade to the new WOH Hyatt card in August 2018 but no spot taken

Still at 2 of 5.

So I'll have 3 or even 4 spots open. I'm thinking Marriott? Do the Marriott business and a personal card by years end?

Still have a couple spots, would like to apply and get those ASAP to get my 24 month countdown going. Think I'm just a bit lost and want to make sure my 5/24 count is correct

Last edited by RVA110; Jun 28, 2018 at 10:30 am Reason: Fix
RVA110 is offline  
Old Jun 28, 2018, 12:11 pm
  #1795  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 64
If I cancel my existing Hyatt card today (been over 24 months since I got it), how long should I wait before I can apply for it again?
sriki is offline  
Old Jun 28, 2018, 12:49 pm
  #1796  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Programs: ANA & ROP
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by sriki
If I cancel my existing Hyatt card today (been over 24 months since I got it), how long should I wait before I can apply for it again?
Use case of cancel CSP (or product change) and apply for CSR be a sample, from my searching is about 7 days.
However, for myself, I was product change for CSP to Freedom and wait for 31 days before apply for CSR.
Got 2 weeks message and approved about week later after apply.

PS. 24 months is counting from the date that you received welcome bonus, not the date that you got the card.

Hope it help.
jamebond is offline  
Old Jun 28, 2018, 7:05 pm
  #1797  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,934
Originally Posted by RVA110
Here is my list currently with the month of my first statement

SW Business 8/15
SW Premiere 8/15
Hyatt 8/16
Chase Sapphire Reserve 10/16
Business Ink Preferred 4/17
(Pending) Wells Fargo Business Card (6/18)

As it stands this means my current 5/24 count is AT 1? The CSR card.
No, you're probably at 2, the CSR and the Hyatt.

But Chase to do go the first statement, it goes by the "opened on" date on your credit report. So go to Credit Karma and look that up.

You're only at 1 if the Hyatt was opened earlier (than now) in June 2016, which would not likely mean a first statement in August.

Still, being at 2 and due to be at 1 in a month or two is not that much worse than being at 1 now.
sdsearch is offline  
Old Jun 28, 2018, 7:10 pm
  #1798  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,934
Originally Posted by RVA110
I'm thinking Marriott? Do the Marriott business and a personal card by years end?
There's a strong rumor posted in the Amex forum (based on a Doctor of Credit source) that Amex will not allow the upcoming (in August) Marriott/Starwood high-end card to get a signup bonus if you had any Marriott/Ritz card signup bonus (from Chase! ) in the past 24 months. If that's true, Chase might be planning something similar. (Citi already does this, limiting you to one signup every 24 months per program, not per card.)

Second, it's not clear if the Chase will still be issuing Marriott business cards by years end. Previous press reports said that Amex will have sole rights to Marriott business cards in the new program (as well as high-end cards), and Chase will keep non-high-end personal cards. So if you want a Marriott business card, I'd suggest you apply for that first while you're sure you can (and first also since it won't add to your 5/24 count).
sdsearch is offline  
Old Jun 29, 2018, 10:06 am
  #1799  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by sdsearch
There's a strong rumor posted in the Amex forum (based on a Doctor of Credit source) that Amex will not allow the upcoming (in August) Marriott/Starwood high-end card to get a signup bonus if you had any Marriott/Ritz card signup bonus (from Chase! ) in the past 24 months. If that's true, Chase might be planning something similar. (Citi already does this, limiting you to one signup every 24 months per program, not per card.)

Second, it's not clear if the Chase will still be issuing Marriott business cards by years end. Previous press reports said that Amex will have sole rights to Marriott business cards in the new program (as well as high-end cards), and Chase will keep non-high-end personal cards. So if you want a Marriott business card, I'd suggest you apply for that first while you're sure you can (and first also since it won't add to your 5/24 count).
Okay, I applied for the Marriott Business (Pending) I'm not going to call this time and hassle them. I don't see them declining me. That one I was going to do anyways. I'll probably do the 100k Marriott in late July.
RVA110 is offline  
Old Jun 29, 2018, 7:58 pm
  #1800  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 28
Canceling a Card, Waiting 45 Days, then Applying for that Same Card

Will Chase react negatively (e.g. shutdown my account) if I this weekend close my United Chase card -- and in 45 new (after I fall below 5/24) apply for a new United Chase card (to get a new bonus)? Thanks!
iowajake is offline  


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