Chase has stopped transfers to Korean Air [now back]
Dec 14, 2014, 10:21 am
#76
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,955
If KE is as miserable to deal with as a business partner as they are directly as a passenger for things like award booking (or, do we even go there, their apparently awful company culture), I'd guess that Chase didn't drive this decision. Nonetheless, I hope Chase explores some other SkyTeam partner, since that's the gap that losing KE creates.
I mostly redeem points/miles for TATL awards, and from BOS, SkyTeam is the best option for reasonably priced awards (either all miles like DL or miles + fuel surcharges with the rest of ST). Otherwise, it's BA, with the same 100-125k RT in J, but with massive fuel surcharges, or United awards on LH/LX, at 140k RT. I'd rather do 80k + YQ on KE.
I mostly redeem points/miles for TATL awards, and from BOS, SkyTeam is the best option for reasonably priced awards (either all miles like DL or miles + fuel surcharges with the rest of ST). Otherwise, it's BA, with the same 100-125k RT in J, but with massive fuel surcharges, or United awards on LH/LX, at 140k RT. I'd rather do 80k + YQ on KE.
Dec 14, 2014, 5:10 pm
#77
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 467
If KE is as miserable to deal with as a business partner as they are directly as a passenger for things like award booking (or, do we even go there, their apparently awful company culture), I'd guess that Chase didn't drive this decision. Nonetheless, I hope Chase explores some other SkyTeam partner, since that's the gap that losing KE creates.
I mostly redeem points/miles for TATL awards, and from BOS, SkyTeam is the best option for reasonably priced awards (either all miles like DL or miles + fuel surcharges with the rest of ST). Otherwise, it's BA, with the same 100-125k RT in J, but with massive fuel surcharges, or United awards on LH/LX, at 140k RT. I'd rather do 80k + YQ on KE.
I mostly redeem points/miles for TATL awards, and from BOS, SkyTeam is the best option for reasonably priced awards (either all miles like DL or miles + fuel surcharges with the rest of ST). Otherwise, it's BA, with the same 100-125k RT in J, but with massive fuel surcharges, or United awards on LH/LX, at 140k RT. I'd rather do 80k + YQ on KE.
KE's main strength was I guess award seat availability (can change and book tickets hours before the flight departs and first class seems to be always available) and some specific routes within Asia (direct flights to locations from Seoul).
Unfortunately Asiana, which serves similar routes, doesn't have any relationships with credit card companies and United mileage program (which I think is affiliated with Asiana) really really really really sucks.
Dec 14, 2014, 5:46 pm
#78
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,955
What did you use KE for when you booked KE award flights?
KE's main strength was I guess award seat availability (can change and book tickets hours before the flight departs and first class seems to be always available) and some specific routes within Asia (direct flights to locations from Seoul).
Unfortunately Asiana, which serves similar routes, doesn't have any relationships with credit card companies and United mileage program (which I think is affiliated with Asiana) really really really really sucks.
KE's main strength was I guess award seat availability (can change and book tickets hours before the flight departs and first class seems to be always available) and some specific routes within Asia (direct flights to locations from Seoul).
Unfortunately Asiana, which serves similar routes, doesn't have any relationships with credit card companies and United mileage program (which I think is affiliated with Asiana) really really really really sucks.
I'm on the east coast, and going to Europe ex-BOS, Skyteam is absolutely the best option. What I'll do now is probably use Avios to book BOS-DUB on EI, and then buy a cash ticket from DUB - but service to secondary cities from DUB is poor.
Dec 14, 2014, 8:45 pm
#79
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
I want to throw out a possible reason why KE pulled the plug - for now. The new KE website was rolled out in Sept/Oct, and it's been a functional mess. There are all sorts of glitches, but the one that affects awards is that you can't make a premium class award booking online (and FT'ers report that even economy bookings error out before getting to the end end of the process.) So pretty much everything award-related (and probably a lot revenue related as well) has to be done by phone through a KE call center, and they're overloaded.
I made an F award booking earlier this month, and the hold times to reach an agent were long. Added to that is KE's convoluted redemption process, that requires a call back to finalize payment for taxes and fees. Usually when you say you want to ticket the reservation you get the call back within a day. This time it was 5 days. So KE, which prides itself on customer service, looks like its in a world of hurt until they get their website working right.
So the possible scenario here is that KE decided to cut off UR transfers to reduce the award booking workload for the time being. That would also be a good reason for not giving any advance notice for the transfer suspension. If there had been advance notice, people would have scrambled to hold reservations before transferring points, which could have resulted in even bigger log jams.
If, in fact, this is the case, an explanation from KE or UR would be welcome. But as we've probably all learned over the years, airlines seldom explain their moves.
I made an F award booking earlier this month, and the hold times to reach an agent were long. Added to that is KE's convoluted redemption process, that requires a call back to finalize payment for taxes and fees. Usually when you say you want to ticket the reservation you get the call back within a day. This time it was 5 days. So KE, which prides itself on customer service, looks like its in a world of hurt until they get their website working right.
So the possible scenario here is that KE decided to cut off UR transfers to reduce the award booking workload for the time being. That would also be a good reason for not giving any advance notice for the transfer suspension. If there had been advance notice, people would have scrambled to hold reservations before transferring points, which could have resulted in even bigger log jams.
If, in fact, this is the case, an explanation from KE or UR would be welcome. But as we've probably all learned over the years, airlines seldom explain their moves.
KE transfers were a big reason for me for getting a Chas Ink card for my business purchases because of the difficulty finding F/J award space on other TPAC carriers. The 5X at Staples is a nice bonus, but I'm not that into manufactured spend, so that perk isn't all that valuable to me.
There's been a lot of talk on here that KE is coming back, but it's based on really thin info. Chase is pretty much silent on the issue. It's been three weeks now, and not back on. The one KE statement that this is a technical website issue isn't holding a lot of water, given that it's been 3 weeks. Yes, Korean is very tight on only member/immediate family redemptions, and UR wasn't that tight on the transfer side. But that doesn't seem like it would be a huge technical obstacle to only permit transfers into a member's own Skypass account, with a name match.
A statement from Chase/UR would be welcome, but nothing. I'm not optimistic that KE is coming back. KE is an interesting airline from an award standpoint. They're VERY liberal with award inventory, but really tight in ways to acquire points to cash in to get it. With KE, you can't even buy miles directly to top off to get an award. I know, because I currently have an F ticket to north Asia with KE that I cashed in 80K UR for (before the shutdown). I want to change my itinerary to include SE Asia, which requires 95K Skypass miles. With Chase transfers down, I can't transfer the add'l 15K points, and from talking with Skypass, there's no way to buy them. So I'm hoping against hope that the KE/UR partnership comes back online. But I'm not holding my breath.
Personally, right now I don't see a big reason to keep my Chase Ink beyond its next annual renewal. Sure, there's no foreign transaction fee, but I have other cards with no fee. True, My AMEX MR Business Gold has a higher annual fee, but Membership Rewards points have a lot more transfer options, and I can get Avios and Singapore there as well. The only unique UR option is MileagePlus, but I've pretty much ditched MP because of the higher award redemption rates. I also stopped flying UA (which was my go to program) over the last year because of too many bad experiences domestic. So UR is dropping in appeal big time as a place to spend and bank points.
There's been a lot of talk on here that KE is coming back, but it's based on really thin info. Chase is pretty much silent on the issue. It's been three weeks now, and not back on. The one KE statement that this is a technical website issue isn't holding a lot of water, given that it's been 3 weeks. Yes, Korean is very tight on only member/immediate family redemptions, and UR wasn't that tight on the transfer side. But that doesn't seem like it would be a huge technical obstacle to only permit transfers into a member's own Skypass account, with a name match.
A statement from Chase/UR would be welcome, but nothing. I'm not optimistic that KE is coming back. KE is an interesting airline from an award standpoint. They're VERY liberal with award inventory, but really tight in ways to acquire points to cash in to get it. With KE, you can't even buy miles directly to top off to get an award. I know, because I currently have an F ticket to north Asia with KE that I cashed in 80K UR for (before the shutdown). I want to change my itinerary to include SE Asia, which requires 95K Skypass miles. With Chase transfers down, I can't transfer the add'l 15K points, and from talking with Skypass, there's no way to buy them. So I'm hoping against hope that the KE/UR partnership comes back online. But I'm not holding my breath.
Personally, right now I don't see a big reason to keep my Chase Ink beyond its next annual renewal. Sure, there's no foreign transaction fee, but I have other cards with no fee. True, My AMEX MR Business Gold has a higher annual fee, but Membership Rewards points have a lot more transfer options, and I can get Avios and Singapore there as well. The only unique UR option is MileagePlus, but I've pretty much ditched MP because of the higher award redemption rates. I also stopped flying UA (which was my go to program) over the last year because of too many bad experiences domestic. So UR is dropping in appeal big time as a place to spend and bank points.
This entire situation makes you think that Chase is a Mickey Mouse operation. Don't most credit card companies communicate that a benefit is ending? If it ends, so be it. People will move on as they've always done. But if it is a glitch or something that will be or is being worked on, why not say so? Also, don't most credit card companies and airlines give a heads up? This is very unprofessional all around.
Dec 14, 2014, 9:17 pm
#80
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 467
I've never flown KE. KE is a Skyteam member, and they have a pretty good partner award chart. As in 50k coach, 80k business round trips. You'd incur fuel surcharges, but depending on what your points are worth to you, still came out ahead of DL and their 125k RT pricing (without fuel surcharges).
I'm on the east coast, and going to Europe ex-BOS, Skyteam is absolutely the best option. What I'll do now is probably use Avios to book BOS-DUB on EI, and then buy a cash ticket from DUB - but service to secondary cities from DUB is poor.
I'm on the east coast, and going to Europe ex-BOS, Skyteam is absolutely the best option. What I'll do now is probably use Avios to book BOS-DUB on EI, and then buy a cash ticket from DUB - but service to secondary cities from DUB is poor.
If you do it directly through Skypass, it takes 62500 miles one-way for J and 80000 miles one-way for F.
Dec 14, 2014, 10:10 pm
#81
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AS, US, Hilton, BA, DL, SPG, AA, VS
Posts: 1,628
They've basically lost (temporarily?) their best airline transfer partner, given that Singapore is great but redemptions can be tough, United and its FF program slide downhill on a daily basis, Virgin and BA charge very large fees for award tix, etc. In fact, in the absence of KE Chase is left with one decent partner, Hyatt.
Dec 14, 2014, 11:54 pm
#82
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,223
I am skeptical that chase sees a significant amount of transfers to KE. I think it is probably their least used transfer partner or perhaps tied with SQ. That's why they probably don't see this as a series issue. If transfers to Hyatt were stopped I think we would see Chase being much more active and transparent.
Dec 15, 2014, 9:23 am
#83
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 41
May I ask who you eventually emailed/called in order to get this done? I just called the Sapphire Preferred number and they said KAL is no longer available and this CSR said this was permanent. He also added that there was no way to transfer the points anymore from his end.
Dec 15, 2014, 3:17 pm
#84
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
There may be contractual terms regarding what can be publicly disclosed. And even if there aren't, publicly blaming one of your business partners for something is usually not a good idea.
This is entirely in the eyes of the beholder. KE isn't very useful to me. My favored partners would be BA & VS, since I want to travel to LHR in F/J, and am willing to pay YQ. Asia is on my list of things I'd like to do, but it's farther down on the list, and the excruciating (until recently) redemption process would've turned me off.
This is entirely in the eyes of the beholder. KE isn't very useful to me. My favored partners would be BA & VS, since I want to travel to LHR in F/J, and am willing to pay YQ. Asia is on my list of things I'd like to do, but it's farther down on the list, and the excruciating (until recently) redemption process would've turned me off.
I am skeptical that chase sees a significant amount of transfers to KE. I think it is probably their least used transfer partner or perhaps tied with SQ. That's why they probably don't see this as a series issue. If transfers to Hyatt were stopped I think we would see Chase being much more active and transparent.
In any event, I just received this secure message via the Chase site in response to a couple of messages I sent asking about this situation:
I can understand your frustration regarding the option to
transfer points to the Korean Air SKYPASS program. As a
security measure, a business decision was made to suspend
this benefit so that we can review processes and make
appropriate changes. Regretfully, at this time, no date
has been determined as to the return of this
functionality. We do realize this feature is part of the
rewards earning structure. Although we reserve the right
to make changes to the program at anytime, we ask that you
trust we are working to resolve this issue as quickly as
possible. I apologize for any inconvenience this may
cause.
This indicates that cutting the connection is only temporary and possibly that, as has been speculated, the cut might be linked to problems with KE's website and/or IT. It still would seem appropriate to stop advertising KER as a partner, given that Chase has no idea when the connection will be re-established. I guess we'll see how this all plays out.
Dec 15, 2014, 4:50 pm
#85
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AS, US, Hilton, BA, DL, SPG, AA, VS
Posts: 1,628
Dec 15, 2014, 5:10 pm
#86
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: AAdvantage, Skymiles, Priority Club, HHonors
Posts: 265
DL Skymiles requires 140,000 r/t J from the U.S. to north Asia on DL metal or a partner. F on KE isn't available to Skymiles/Skyteam partners, only directly via Skypass redemption. In comparison, AAdvantage takes r/t in J from the U.S. to north Asia, AA metal or partner, including Cathay (even though CX space can be difficult but not impossible to find), and AAdvantage also has F redemptions (135K r/t U.S. to north Asia.) So Skymiles is 140,000 r/t in Delta Business Elite compared to 135,000 Aadvantage miles r/t in Cathay Pacific First. KE's ace in the hole is award availability, but DL's Skyteam partner availability for J class is very, very good.
Dec 23, 2014, 9:38 am
#89
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold, Club Carlson Gold, National EE, *G
Posts: 470