May 15, 2014, 8:16 am

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This thread is now archived. Please follow the topic here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase-ultimate-rewards/1986148-chase-closed-my-credit-card-account-s-tales-speculation-2019-thread.html

If you feel your account has been unfairly closed, consider filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau:
CFPB's complaint form: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/

When someone reports an account closure here, a lot of the same questions get asked. It might be useful to answer some questions in advance. This could help figure out what happened or how to proceed:

Did you transfer UR points to someone with a different address? Different last name?
Did you sell UR points to someone?
Approximately what percentage of your charges earned less than 5x points in the past 12 months?
Did a Chase or non-Chase bank recently close one of your credit cards?
Are you using up a large percentage of your credit line on all Chase and non-Chase credit cards?
Is your total credit line with Chase much higher than with other banks?
Did you apply for many credit cards or other forms of credit in the past 2 months? ("Many" may be hard to define.)
If you have a Chase checking account how much did you typically deposit in money orders per month, if any?
Did you recently start spending a lot more with Chase than in typical months?
Is your monthly balance frequently close to your credit limit?
Approximately what percentage of spending was on gift cards this year?
How much of your bill do you typically pay using WM or KMart bill payment if any?
Do you have a Chase mortgage or other account that might be profitable to Chase?
Has your credit score or credit profile changed recently? As in: significantly more debt, more open credit lines, or a large drop in your credit score?

Related threads: 2013.1 2013.4
2013.9
2013.12 2014.6
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...ta-points.html

On 1/4/15, LivelyFL noted that 34 posts have referenced account closures (updated 1/25/15):
1, 55, 80, 108, 117, 129, 146, 165, 182, 212, 221, 222, 232, 235, 262, 272, 281, 326, 364, 410, 411, 428, 475, 477, 482, 513, 552, 586, 620, 648, 656, 662, 714, 718, 784 and 815.

Mortgasm provided more detail as follows:

001 - moarmiles little explaination - 'inconsistent spending'
055 - brettskyg chase gift cards tiny ms
080 - Artemk checking chase gift card, tiny MS, international wires, wall-mart BP
108 - TTnc4me (105 actually) no info
117 - rodsren
129 - Kybosh chase gift card checking
146 - mintcilantro - checking 6k/month MS, BB payments from another ss#, some MO/AP, 7new cards in 90days, short cycling
165 - newcomr - checking
182 - thehawk75 - heavy MSw/other banks,
212 - LRD - 2x spend of 20k /month (on two cards), checking
221 - iceman 77_7, no info
222 - jk2 no info
232 - hitman1420 checking , heavy MS activity (no number)
235 - clearlyanewb checking, MS activity (10k AGC and more), light credit history, 10 recent inquiries
262 - brc01 - shortcycling, some MS (18k/month over a few cards), 1
272 - rambo - 70% MS on 5 cards, WM BP of 16k/month on 5 cards
281 - prestonv - heavy MS - 20k/month on multiple chase cards, heavy WMBP (ink stayed open)
326 - pacupgo - false alarm, no shutdown
364 - edh101985 - tiny MS (bonus only) , 4 chase cards in 6 months,
410 - msetr - lots of freedom/ink ms
411 - standaman360 - international wires (business), million dollar balances,
428 - queensgambit - gambling transactions, UR point transfer from SO, 5 chase apps 3 new chase cc in 45 days, Blogger points coach
475 - dogloverjb - checking, international wires,
477 - ftomasz - 14 inquiries in 8 months, 5 chase, minimal MS, rapid upswing in credit, paying from multiple accounts
482 - liw5215 - Heavy MS, re-entered after 13 months
513 - thegasguru - checking, $3k/month MO to checking, NO MS, AP,
552 - LAXtoWorld - 3 cards in 30 days
586 - adavydov7 checking, $1k APs,
648 - CMHFlyerOH - checking, MO, 3k gift cards
656 - I can see for miles - Maxed UR 5x rewards on Freedom and Ink cards. Chased closed all accounts. Was approved for Ritz Carlton card 14 months later and did nothing unusual with it, other than lower CL from 30K to 10K to free up CL for possible approvals. Two subsequent Chase apps (Chase Ink and Marriott Rewards), on separate dates 3+ months later, were declined for a "previous unsatisfactory relationship ..."
662 - frogdog51 - Chase VGCs (Reapproved in 12 months)
677 - Subdawg - closed for piggybacking
714 - Mamibear - 'abuse' redcard MS
718 - maxswanson - MS, 11 chase cards, traded UR, (reapproved after 12 months)
752 - peaser - "reputational risk" associated with the business (decision reversed later)
757 - uncommonsensical checking, 3 Cashier's Check deposits with quick w/d (the w/d were to pay CHASE credit cards! ridiculous 'loss prevention' dept. gods). All CC's closed 2 days later. Tried EX Office- they seem to have zero power once the Mullah in loss prevention has issued a fatwa (my guess: some 27 year old with a god complex).
762 - knopfler - checking closed (all credit cards closed in both mine and Mrs. Knopflers accounts about three weeks after checking closure)
771 - milemonkey - 'reputational Risk" connected to Attorney General lawsuit
784 - unstable one: 2 cash deposits over 10k to chase checking
815 - dukerau - one time UR point sale, 77% spending is 5x,

Chase closed my credit card account(s) [Archived 2013-mid 2019]

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Jul 17, 2017, 3:20 am

#1546

nwflyboy

Join Date: Sep 2005

Programs: Northwest, United

Posts: 3,256

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edgerfly

I don't know. Chase won't tell me at this point. But I suspect it's because I don't let companies screw me, so I chargeback. For example on rented cars when there is no toll both, and it's toll by plate I dispute those transactions...

Do you mean, you rent a car, you drive through some electronic/automated toll booth/device where they snap a photo of your plate, they look up the owner (the rental car agency) and forward them the toll bills, which then get charged to your credit card? And you dispute that charge? Because...exactly why?
(apologies if I've misunderstood your explanation, but if I got that right...)

Jul 17, 2017, 12:27 pm

#1547

physioprof

Join Date: Apr 2015

Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive

Posts: 4,098

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwflyboy

And if this is what is going on, why on earth would someone with an 805 credit score be messing around with nonsense like this??

Jul 17, 2017, 2:25 pm

#1548

garykung

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Edgerfly

But I suspect it's because I don't let companies screw me, so I chargeback.

There is more to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDJennings

I can see why Chase would consider dropping a customer for excessive chargebacks since Chase will flat out eat those without even presenting it to the merchant if the charge is low enough.

Disputing charges is a statutory right under Fair Credit Billing Act, which is protected by Equal Credit Opportunity Act. Issuers will be stupid to go after consumers that dispute a lot (Note - if found, a Equal Credit Opportunity Act violation automatically comes with punitive damages for up to $10K, as well as attorney fees and costs, in addition to actual damages).

A lot of disputes do not mean misuse or abuse.

Also - Chase has no obligation to eat the small amounts. It is the issuer's decision in light of the costs.

Jul 17, 2017, 2:32 pm

#1549

Edgerfly

Suspended

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Posts: 2,019

Quote:

Originally Posted by garykung

There is more to it.

So what should I do? As I said I've been a customer for over a decade, and never missed a payment ever.

Jul 17, 2017, 2:34 pm

#1550

josephstern

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Upper Sternistan

Posts: 10,043

Quote:

Originally Posted by garykung

A lot of disputes do not mean misuse or abuse.

Chase may see that differently. Anecdotally, I've heard of a lot of people with outsized chargeback activity getting accounts closed. I'm not sure why a bank wouldn't consider that to be a risk factor. If a customer is willing to take this step more than average, that may correlate to a customer willing to default at an above-average rate.

Just because the customer has the right to initiate a chargeback doesn't mean that activity isn't noted by the bank in determining who they'd like to keep as customers.

Jul 17, 2017, 2:49 pm

#1551

garykung

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Edgerfly

So what should I do? As I said I've been a customer for over a decade, and never missed a payment ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephstern

Chase may see that differently. Anecdotally, I've heard of a lot of people with outsized chargeback activity getting accounts closed.

Please define "outsized".

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephstern

Just because the customer has the right to initiate a chargeback doesn't mean that activity isn't noted by the bank in determining who they'd like to keep as customers.

Let me put it this way and make this easy for everyone - no dispute is too much unless the consumer intends to misuse/abuse the system. Other than that, issuers can't close out accounts simply because of too many disputes.

Equal Credit Opportunity Act prohibits issuers to take any actions against consumers when the consumers exercises the rights in good faith.

Jul 17, 2017, 2:57 pm

#1552

Appleman

Join Date: Oct 2016

Posts: 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edgerfly

So what should I do? As I said I've been a customer for over a decade, and never missed a payment ever.

If you are willing to dispute a charge where they have a picture of you and your car, that could be considered a strong risk factor.

Jul 17, 2017, 3:20 pm

#1553

Critterlynn

Join Date: Nov 2015

Location: St. Louis, MO

Programs: Southwest Companion Pass

Posts: 790

Quote:

Originally Posted by garykung

Again - there are more to your closure.

If you truly suspect the chargeback is the issue, contact a lawyer.

Otherwise - think about what you have done. Chase won't close out accounts for no reason. There must be something you have done.

Please define "outsized".

Let me put it this way and make this easy for everyone - no dispute is too much unless the consumer intends to misuse/abuse the system. Other than that, issuers can't close out accounts simply because of too many disputes.

Equal Credit Opportunity Act prohibits issuers to take any actions against consumers when the consumers exercises the rights in good faith.

Why can't they? That's the whole reason they have the language "we can close your account for any reason". It's not like they're ever going to tell you the real reason.

Last edited by Critterlynn; Jul 17, 2017 at 5:35 pm

Jul 17, 2017, 6:38 pm

#1554

garykung

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Appleman

If you are willing to dispute a charge where they have a picture of you and your car, that could be considered a strong risk factor.

If you know how toll system works, you will be surprised double charging do occur, which happen when both of your plate and transponder are used.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critterlynn

Why can't they? That's the whole reason they have the language "we can close your account for any reason". It's not like they're ever going to tell you the real reason.

Assuming OP's closure is indeed chargeback related, if OP is able to show no other risk factors (i.e. a typical customer), the chargeback is the issue and all chargebacks are justified (i.e. made in good faith), OP can sue Chase for damages with the proof OP has. Then Chase will be forced to reveal the real reason. If it is indeed chargeback, then Chase can face serious trouble.

(Declaimer - I believe there is more to OP's story. I don't believe that OP's closure is related to chargeback.)

Jul 17, 2017, 6:40 pm

#1555

MDJennings

Join Date: Sep 2013

Posts: 401

Quote:

Originally Posted by garykung

There is more to it.

Disputing charges is a statutory right under Fair Credit Billing Act, which is protected by Equal Credit Opportunity Act. Issuers will be stupid to go after consumers that dispute a lot (Note - if found, a Equal Credit Opportunity Act violation automatically comes with punitive damages for up to $10K, as well as attorney fees and costs, in addition to actual damages).

A lot of disputes do not mean misuse or abuse.

Also - Chase has no obligation to eat the small amounts. It is the issuer's decision in light of the costs.

Yes, it's a statutory right and not illegal the same way purchasing a product then returning it over and over to Costco (by claiming you're not satisfied with it) isn't illegal either. Both businesses can make the decision to no longer do business with you.

Jul 17, 2017, 7:07 pm

#1556

garykung

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MDJennings

It is illegal because Equal Credit Opportunity Act prohibits discrimination against any aspects of a credit transaction when the consumer is exercising a protected right in good faith.

Jul 17, 2017, 7:52 pm

#1557

mia

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Edgerfly

...never missed a payment ever.

Credit risk isn't the only reason to close an account:

Quote:

If we suspect that you've engaged in fraudulent activity related to your credit card account or Ultimate Rewards, or that you've misused Ultimate Rewards in any way (for example by buying or selling points, moving or transferring points with or to an ineligible third party or account, or repeatedly opening or otherwise maintaining credit card accounts for the sole purpose of generating rewards) we may temporarily prohibit you from earning points or using points you've already earned. If we believe you've engaged in any of these acts, we'll close your credit card account and you'll lose all your points.

Jul 17, 2017, 10:46 pm

#1558

Happy

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Join Date: Jul 2003

Location: Florida

Posts: 29,762

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edgerfly

I don't know. Chase won't tell me at this point. But I suspect it's because I don't let companies screw me, so I chargeback. For example on rented cars when there is no toll both, and it's toll by plate I dispute those transactions. And I don't care how small the amount is with merchants. When a merchant erroneously charges me, I chargeback. For the record I've won all my disputes because I was in the right.

I traveled to China, and had two cards compromised and when I disputed the charges, all my accounts were closed. Chase claims to have your back when you travel but, I guess I learned the hard way that they don't.

1) About the rental car charge back - are you saying that when you incurred toll when it is tolled by plate, and later the rental car companies put thru the charge on those tolls (plus the scam fee of $ / day "Admin Fee") you dispute the charges?
That might be considered a fraudulent charge back because even though there is no toll booth, you are still liable for the toll incurred. I can see the basis to dispute the scam fee - for example, when you only used toll road once but got charged "Admin Fee" for everyday of the rental period.

So exactly what you disputed as reading your post it isn't clear on what part of the charges you disputed.

2) The 2 cards compromised in China - how did you dispute those charges?

There was a case reported in the Citi closure thread that the cardholder disputed over the phone on either a fraudulent charge or rather a double charge by a merchant, on some merchandises that were not delivered or wrong merchandises delivered. Can't remember the details now.
Citi closed his accounts but gave the reason being the cardholder filed "fraudulent claims".

Jul 18, 2017, 7:57 am

#1559

txpenny

Join Date: Sep 2014

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Programs: AA EXP, Mar AMB, HH LT DIA

Posts: 1,652

Quote:

Originally Posted by garykung

I believe the OP made the statement that all of his chargebacks have been approved. IMO, if chargeback abuse was the reason for closure, I doubt the OP would have a 100% success rate with chargebacks.

I know someone (not a friend) who challenged several charges every month with AMEX. He would challenge legitimate charges figuring that there would be a certain percentage of wins based on his belief that most vendors are too lazy to fight the chargebacks. He did win some that he should not have, but his account was closed by Amex after a few months of this pattern.

I think there is more to the story as well.

Jul 18, 2017, 9:07 am

#1560

Kacee

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Join Date: Apr 2013

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Posts: 56,459

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edgerfly

I suspect it's because I don't let companies screw me, so I chargeback. For example on rented cars when there is no toll both, and it's toll by plate I dispute those transactions. And I don't care how small the amount is with merchants. When a merchant erroneously charges me, I chargeback. For the record I've won all my disputes because I was in the right.

I'm kind of scratching my head at the apparent volume here. I don't let companies cheat me, either. I think I've had to do one chargeback in the past ten years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDJennings

lol I had a friend who routinely returned stuff to REI after four years of hard use. Of course they eventually changed the rule, so everyone got punished because a few abused the policy.

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