Happy

I suspect the poster does not get 2 Ink Bold cards especially Chase does seem to be more strict when it comes to Ink Bold when you are not instantly approved. Most everyone reported they are being questioned about their businesses, some extensively.

It is more like combining the points from her parents accounts to hers. Otherwise, there is no way her Mom's accounts would be affected as well. Her Dad's accounts are not affected, for now. May be her Dad's SSN is not being used as much as her Mom's in the mileage grabbing game - i.e. could have less inquiries, higher personal income, less aggressive usage of spend bonus, whatever.

superking

Yes, AA/Fidelity did clawed back miles.


The closure is specifically done by the Credit Review Department(Risk Mgmt?), not by the marketing department. They have no authority to close the card but they do have authority to issue points/take away points. I had a different ordeal with the marketing department last year for a different issue. I disagree your opinion about combining points triggered closure of accounts.


I have sent Chase Executive Department appeal letter citing numerous facts about my credit profile such as low utilization ratio, proof of income etc. They did allowed me to redeem it for cash after the appeal.

The offer was given by the Finance Dept, not by Credit or Risk, and if they knew I was high credit risk... the offer might even be rescinded. Now a days, some employers even look at the credit of an potential employee.

All my mother's cards were closed(with more than 20k limit)
All my father's cards were not closed(with less than 10k limit)
My father have more inquiries than my mother and have as much Chase cards and inquiries than her, the only difference is the credit limit.

Happy

My opinion does NOT matter. I am just guessing. Others can certainly draw their own conclusions. My suggestion is more like serving as a thought to the others who have similar "behavioral" patterns as yours, that this MIGHT be a red flag caught by the system.

I personally know a case similar to yours that happened last year, but the loss of UR pts was to a much LESSER degree. Yes, Chase gave the person a check for her 50K Sapphire bonus even though the person was actually a bit short of meeting the spend requirement, after the letter to the Exec Office pleading for the re-opening of the Sapphire card so the person could finish the spend requirement to earn the bonus. Chase said No, but simply gave the person a $500 check to end the matter. Said person also have had some complaints to the government agency long before that on some other issues, just as you have done before. While the previous complains were resolved in the complainer's favor probably because the government agency sent a letter to Chase - that does not mean some notation would not be made in the person's profile (SSN) and carried some negative effect on the account closure that happened Months later.

At the time of card account closure, the person still had banking accounts with Chase. Those were closed a few months later after an inadvertently overdraft or something similar. Basically the person has been on Chase "Not to do business with" List ever since.

Sometimes people are emboldened by the web stories about various success stories when they contacted government agencies to get matters resolved in their favors... What they dont know / or consider is, a company has every right NOT to do business with a customer when it can cite credible reasons such as "accounts not used for intended purposes" or "credit risk" or "for business reason". A small victory could very well mean you are being on a watch list of Unwelcome customers. Anything later that triggers the slightest flag in the system, your name and accounts would pop to the top of investigation / scrutiny list and adverse action followed.

Use the avenue of complaint judiciously is all I would say. Short term gain does not pay for long (very long) term loss.

Correct. However your credit report(s) should be OK with your score, other than the 11 inquiries you had in 2011. Since you dont have any default so far and hopefully no new inquiries this year - the report should still be an acceptable one.

Credit limit of 20K is actually on the low side. Lots of folks in similar income brackets have 50K or much more credit limit just from those I have knowledge about.

AlohaDaveKennedy

So the Chase Cardinals are handing out Scarlet Letters? The only way out after you get one of those is to lead a life of repentance. Check Amazon.com for their selection of hair shirts and ashes.

Happy

Binging of any kind has never been good. The outcome often is quite ugly. Unfortunately nobody would ever think about the outcome when s/he was binging.

Many are like drunken sailors that dont know when to say when.

The most amusing that is posted here has been, someone insists that he does not know the limit because the bank never spells out what is the limit, where is the line, what he has done is nothing wrong because the bank never says so in the T&Cs, ... when his bank takes adverse action against him on both the card and the bank accounts. (No, it is not Chase but a regional bank in Northeast - proved that banks of all stripes would cut you off when you abuse the customer's privileges provided by the banks.)

Mountain Trader

It seems in reading these histories that most have an element of fairly aggressive behavior in card use, applications or point transfers. What I don't see so far is negative Chase reaction to getting a new card every 4-6 months and cancelling old cards as you go. This is likely the behavior of the majority of FTers.

I admire and find great humor in stories of hammering cards to optimize points thru gift card manipulation, transaction bonuses and other methods. But if you participate in these extreme activities, you can't be truly shocked when a bank reacts to reject your business, especially after stories on national TV broadcasting the game to everyone.

As they say on Wall Street, pigs get slaughtered.

CodeAdam10

@superking: That is extreme activity / abuse of your relationship (aka privilege) with Chase. Certainly you cannot be shocked they shut you down. Thank you for sharing your story so openly, I'm certain it will help other FT'ers down the line. But in all honesty I would shut you down, too.

@ArizonaGuy: Be careful?

tyfabes

Exactly. Why would Chase take on unnecessary risk when that person is barely generating any profit for them to begin with.

My guess is that it takes several months, if not years in some cases, for Chase to recoup the bonuses handed out with each card offer. This is simply cutting losses on their end.

ArizonaGuy

Eh. Not really pointing to myself. I don't even have a Freedom. But there are countless people who've acquired both a Sapphire Preferred (in some cases both a Visa and Mastercard), an Ink Bold (old and new) and a Freedom and they're still chugging merrily along. Paying for the appropriate expenses on the card that gives the most points for the category. Bloggers included. And they're all still fine.

So all of this makes me wonder what's really up.

Happy

An interesting similarity worth mentioning is, the poster also is the only one who has reported the AA bonus miles were clawed back by AA or Fidelity, presumably after an audit caused by taking advantage of some shopping portal loopholes. The event was reported by the OP last year in the now closed Fido thread. One or both her parents' accounts also lost the AA bonus miles. Something must related to the behavioral pattern which we would never know what exactly trigger the flag(s) big enough to cause scrutiny and adverse actions followed.

ArizonaGuy

Right. Though frankly it's still troubling - as someone else stated, the complete account closure with zero reconsideration makes Amex Financial Review look like a walk in the park - and even that is still not completely clear how it's triggered. At least with Amex, if I ever fall victim to that I will provide the credit lender access to my income tax return, they determine I'm not lying about my income, and life goes on. I don't like it but at least there's an out there.

Happy

Whenever I read horror stories like that, I cannot help to think about, What for? All the aggressiveness to "work" the system so to maximize the "profit" at the end essentially cut yourself from the "profit trail" in the long run. In Superking's case she is lucky to get back the cash equivalent of the bonuses but she (and her Mom being used as a pawn) would be on Chase "not to do business with" list for years to come. The 490K potential UA miles that could possibly be earmarked for a longhaul family trip in business class to subcontinent now turned into cash that barely covers the trip in coach. Does it worth it?

superking

I'm actually not on Chase's black list... I'm eligible to apply for new cards according to Chase. I think you have a misconception? I work the system? How did I work the system? I applied for the same amount of cards as many of the FTers. How is that considered working the system? The only difference is that I have combined all the points instead of having them in different accounts.

I never travel in Business class anyway... coach class is sufficient and $4600 is enough to cover at least 5 round trip tickets to Asia during low season. Plus I have 500k UA, 500k AA, and 500k Delta points.

Marathon Man

***DELETED***

HoKo

Haha, is that a serious question? How about just marking it on your calendar

Of course it CAN happen, anything can happen. The question is how likely it is to happen and what behaviors cause it to happen. If you're really concerned about it then leave the account open and put some spending on it. So long as you don't have a clear cut pattern of opening card after card, meeting the spend minimum and then closing you should be fine. I highly doubt Chase will shut you down for doing so once.