Aug 10, 2019, 6:54 pm
Last edit by: percysmith
This thread is to discuss the facts and practical implications of the China ruling on airspace and Cathay crew flying through the airspace.
For non-CX impact on travel to HK, please go to this thread in HK/Macau https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hong...ns-travel.html
If you would like to discuss the political motivations or opinions on this, please go to this thread in OMNI/PR https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/omni...-protests.html
For non-CX impact on travel to HK, please go to this thread in HK/Macau https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hong...ns-travel.html
If you would like to discuss the political motivations or opinions on this, please go to this thread in OMNI/PR https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/omni...-protests.html
CX Banned (kind of) by China
Aug 10, 2019, 5:39 pm
#106
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: ORD
Programs: AA, Hilton
Posts: 159
I totally agree with the moderator. I think sxc has done a fantastic job in keeping this thread non political. In this day and age, the level of self-righteousness on political issue is off the chart. There are people on both sides (eg. left and right in the US, HK and mainland, Japan and Korea, India and Pakistan) feel the urge to hijack every news, every blog, every thread to express their political views without realizing first of all there is actually legitimate view on the other side, and second the silence majority wants to stay on topic.
Aug 10, 2019, 5:44 pm
#107
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Programs: QR/AC Gold, VA Silver, IHG Plat, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 1,581
I understand. I stated it was just my view and ultimately I understand FT would like to keep it strictly travel related, e.g. "will this affect my flight".
And the enormity of this event, and how long it has lasted, has taken a heavy toll on all residents. I apologize if we have overly pushed our agenda and can only ask for understanding from the rest of the world.
And the enormity of this event, and how long it has lasted, has taken a heavy toll on all residents. I apologize if we have overly pushed our agenda and can only ask for understanding from the rest of the world.
There is an existing thread on HK Protests at Omni/PR. I suggest putting a link on wiki on top of this thread and forum.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/omni-pr/1616398-hong-kong-protests.html
There is an existing thread on HK Protests at Omni/PR. I suggest putting a link on wiki on top of this thread and forum.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/omni-pr/1616398-hong-kong-protests.html
Aug 10, 2019, 10:01 pm
#108
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,805
There is an existing thread on HK Protests at Omni/PR. I suggest putting a link on wiki on top of this thread and forum.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/omni...-protests.html
There is an existing thread on HK Protests at Omni/PR. I suggest putting a link on wiki on top of this thread and forum.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/omni...-protests.html
Last edited by percysmith; Aug 10, 2019 at 10:07 pm
Aug 10, 2019, 10:09 pm
#109
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,805
Aug 10, 2019, 10:24 pm
#110
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,805
For my long trip last year, my first leg was HKG-CDG and my CX279 was delayed due to congestion on the northern corridor to PRC (which was fortunate, cos we overslept and arrived at counter T-38 min, and we're still accepted due to delay).
After an hour's wait out CX279 was sent on a western route near Hainan and routed north thru Sichuan into Siberia.
Of course if even that corridor was closed then we'd be stuck with an SAA Apartheid era-like bulge-of-Africa routing (something still applies like this to UK flights to/from Gibraltar?). Or Qatar's corridor on the Persian Gulf.
Speaking of universal rights, I really think first freedom of civilian aircraft with no intelligence purposes (planes can be inspected by ICAO or something) should be a universal right for environmental purposes, but obviously not current international law.
After an hour's wait out CX279 was sent on a western route near Hainan and routed north thru Sichuan into Siberia.
Of course if even that corridor was closed then we'd be stuck with an SAA Apartheid era-like bulge-of-Africa routing (something still applies like this to UK flights to/from Gibraltar?). Or Qatar's corridor on the Persian Gulf.
Speaking of universal rights, I really think first freedom of civilian aircraft with no intelligence purposes (planes can be inspected by ICAO or something) should be a universal right for environmental purposes, but obviously not current international law.
Aug 11, 2019, 1:00 am
#111
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 946
It seems that CX Group is affected based on other information in this thread but regardless of what CAAC has/has not said publicly, some mainland companies have issued "safety" advice immediately banning staff from flying on CX/KA for work travel.
Aug 11, 2019, 1:02 am
#112
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,050
Care to provide some examples of these companies with credible sources?
Aug 11, 2019, 1:06 am
#113
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 946
Aug 11, 2019, 3:44 am
#115
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,568
Originally Posted by ernestnywang;31402057[b
]I believe the notice is for CX only, and KA was not included.[/b] Perhaps CAAC is using this as their leverage, i. e., if CX cooperates, the new measure will not extend to KA (or UO).
I guess that CX got direct instructions from CAAC.
CX response above clearly states that the whole "Cathay Pacific Group" will comply. Cathay Pacific Group includes Cathauy Dragon, HK Express and Air Hong Kong (cargo).
https://news.cathaypacific.com/fact-sheet
Aug 11, 2019, 5:42 am
#116
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: TPE / HSZ
Programs: CX GO (=SPH), IHG Diamond Amb, Hertz 5*, Accor, Hilton, National
Posts: 6,437
I don't believe that's true.
I guess that CX got direct instructions from CAAC.
CX response above clearly states that the whole "Cathay Pacific Group" will comply. Cathay Pacific Group includes Cathauy Dragon, HK Express and Air Hong Kong (cargo).
https://news.cathaypacific.com/fact-sheet
I guess that CX got direct instructions from CAAC.
CX response above clearly states that the whole "Cathay Pacific Group" will comply. Cathay Pacific Group includes Cathauy Dragon, HK Express and Air Hong Kong (cargo).
https://news.cathaypacific.com/fact-sheet
I know you said you cannot read Chinese, but @christep also provided a translation earlier in the thread. As CX, KA, LD (Air Hong Kong), and UO all operate under separate AOCs, and the CAAC notice did not mention "group" or "system" (系, a word commonly used to represent CA and its subsidiaries, MU and its subsidiaries, etc.), my impression from reading the notice has always been that it applies to CX only. Of course, I also saw that the earlier CX announcement shared by @shek3112 said "Cathay Pacific Group" and in that case, subsidiaries should be included. Perhaps CX went "beyond" to please CAAC, or perhaps in the private meeting between CX and CAAC Central and Southern Regional Administration, it was clarified that the measure applies to subsidiaries, too.
In any case, I'm happy to see that the vast majority of CX and KA flights are operating normally today, which means that the matter is likely resolved, for now.
Aug 11, 2019, 6:04 am
#117
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: TPE / HSZ
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Posts: 6,437
Aug 11, 2019, 10:24 pm
#119
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I don’t know but I expect that it’s in the employee contracts that they must have the right to operate to all locations CX flies to. So if they lose that, maybe they will get sacked.
Aug 11, 2019, 10:28 pm
#120
Suspended
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It is not in the contract.
There is a statement on conduct.
No statement on any pilot contracts about being able to operate to all bases. In fact, I know of instances where certain nationalities haven't operated to ports due to safety. Japanese to China in recent memory from a few years ago.
This is all going to bite Swire in the bottom sooner rather than later. I am actually wondering if I should bother with posting my next set of flights for Diamond as CX may not exist in the coming year. Its not so hard to imagine.
There is a statement on conduct.
No statement on any pilot contracts about being able to operate to all bases. In fact, I know of instances where certain nationalities haven't operated to ports due to safety. Japanese to China in recent memory from a few years ago.
This is all going to bite Swire in the bottom sooner rather than later. I am actually wondering if I should bother with posting my next set of flights for Diamond as CX may not exist in the coming year. Its not so hard to imagine.