Aug 10, 2019, 6:54 pm
Last edit by: percysmith
This thread is to discuss the facts and practical implications of the China ruling on airspace and Cathay crew flying through the airspace.
For non-CX impact on travel to HK, please go to this thread in HK/Macau https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hong...ns-travel.html
If you would like to discuss the political motivations or opinions on this, please go to this thread in OMNI/PR https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/omni...-protests.html
For non-CX impact on travel to HK, please go to this thread in HK/Macau https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hong...ns-travel.html
If you would like to discuss the political motivations or opinions on this, please go to this thread in OMNI/PR https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/omni...-protests.html
CX Banned (kind of) by China
Aug 9, 2019, 11:12 pm
#46
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: AMS, JFK/EWR/LGA
Programs: Flying Blue/Platinum, TK/Elite Plus, QR/Platinum, LH/FTL, Marriott/Platinum
Posts: 293
Don't know how you arrived at this conclusion all of a sudden... All I have to say, and have been saying, is I don't see why UA/AA realistically have any interests in siding with CX, full stop. Hope I've made myself clear.
Aug 9, 2019, 11:15 pm
#47
Join Date: May 2017
Location: SIN
Programs: AS MVPG75k, AA Plat
Posts: 741
In which case you must've misread my post. The interest I quoted was "fair treatment of airline crew". Not siding with CX.
Aug 9, 2019, 11:31 pm
#48
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: AMS, JFK/EWR/LGA
Programs: Flying Blue/Platinum, TK/Elite Plus, QR/Platinum, LH/FTL, Marriott/Platinum
Posts: 293
UA/AA isn't subject to this discriminatory treatment, CX is. If UA/AA give their mandate by granting its crew extra layover to stage whatever protest or sit-in in HKG, don't know what it is if this is not solidarity with CX? Take a step back, why would they want to irritate the Chinese authorities and risk their business there?
I'm gonna stop here, pointless to discuss such a highly illusional presumption...
I'm gonna stop here, pointless to discuss such a highly illusional presumption...
Aug 9, 2019, 11:41 pm
#49
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Osaka, Shenzhen, NYC
Posts: 77
Flying through Chinese airspace is a privilege, not a right. Also, I would not want someone who just took part in an anti-US protest to be piloting my flight to the US so I cannot fault the Chinese for not wanting the same.
Aug 9, 2019, 11:45 pm
#50
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Hong Kong, Jakarta
Posts: 219
BTW the protest is always about the 5 demands:
5 Demands from Hongkongers
1. Withdraw the extradition law amendment bill
2. Retract the characterization of the protests as “riots”
3. Full independent inquiry into police brutality
4. Unconditionally free all arrested protesters
5. Universal suffrage for both CE and LegCo elections
Some anti-China actions are from a few protesters but not majority. Actually it's quite interesting to notice that in local forum for the protests, those that propose anti-China actions got banned/scolded by the other protesters lol
Aug 9, 2019, 11:51 pm
#51
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: BKK
Programs: TK Elite Plus, QR Gold, IHG Gold
Posts: 203
If you think that the protests are about HKers being anti-China, then I think either you check your sources for bias or you know extremely little about the reasons for what is going on. Most people in HK don't want independence from China, because that is impossible. They just want Carrie Lam, her Marie Antoinette behavior, and her utterly out-of-touch people gone.
Aug 9, 2019, 11:54 pm
#52
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Osaka, Shenzhen, NYC
Posts: 77
The HK police force specifically allow this pilot to fly and leave HK on job duties... I'm quite confused actually on the CAAC decision since they are literally saying HK Police Force IS WRONG...
BTW the protest is always about the 5 demands:
5 Demands from Hongkongers
1. Withdraw the extradition law amendment bill
2. Retract the characterization of the protests as “riots”
3. Full independent inquiry into police brutality
4. Unconditionally free all arrested protesters
5. Universal suffrage for both CE and LegCo elections
Some anti-China actions are from a few protesters but not majority. Actually it's quite interesting to notice that in local forum for the protests, those that propose anti-China actions got banned/scolded by the other protesters lol
BTW the protest is always about the 5 demands:
5 Demands from Hongkongers
1. Withdraw the extradition law amendment bill
2. Retract the characterization of the protests as “riots”
3. Full independent inquiry into police brutality
4. Unconditionally free all arrested protesters
5. Universal suffrage for both CE and LegCo elections
Some anti-China actions are from a few protesters but not majority. Actually it's quite interesting to notice that in local forum for the protests, those that propose anti-China actions got banned/scolded by the other protesters lol
Aug 9, 2019, 11:54 pm
#53
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Hong Kong, Jakarta
Posts: 219
If you think that the protests are about HKers being anti-China, then I think either you check your sources for bias or you know extremely little about the reasons for what is going on. Most people in HK don't want independence from China, because that is impossible. They just want Carrie Lam, her Marie Antoinette behavior, and her utterly out-of-touch people gone.
Aug 9, 2019, 11:56 pm
#54
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Hong Kong, Jakarta
Posts: 219
Just saw the mod note so I’ll keep it short. On your first point the HK police made a judgement on HK. Similarly CAAC made a judgement regarding China. A pilot can be a danger to China but not to HK, so these don’t conflict. As for the protestors those are the smart ones, but the can of worms has already been opened, so a bit late.
Aug 10, 2019, 12:35 am
#55
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY, USA
Programs: SPG GL, AA GL
Posts: 2,591
Stupid question. Is there any aviation / international law that prevent a country from making such ban based on their made-up ideology? Can a country ban pilots / airlines from flying through their airspace because they don't believe in serving alcohol or smoking or wearing make up or whatever? CX staff are (occasionally) protesting during off hours which is not illegal in HK. I can understand not issuing visa or banning them from entering China. But banning an airline from flying through airspace because of employee off hours activities is crazy.
Aug 10, 2019, 12:59 am
#57
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: A3 *G, AA exePlat, AS MVP 75k Gold, JL sapphire, UA silver
Posts: 4,035
Does Air Canada need to submit crew list when overflying USA to Caribbean?
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...ions/airspace/
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...ions/airspace/
Aug 10, 2019, 1:20 am
#58
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,805
Does Air Canada need to submit crew list when overflying USA to Caribbean?
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...ions/airspace/
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...ions/airspace/
Aug 10, 2019, 1:20 am
#59
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: None any more
Posts: 11,017
Aug 10, 2019, 1:23 am
#60
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: None any more
Posts: 11,017
This demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the legal system in Hong Kong. It is not within the remit of the police to make such decisions - it was the decision of a judge. Unlike China (where all state entities are subservient to the Communist Party) in Hong Kong the judiciary is independent of the police and of the prosecution (which is part of the Department of Justice).