Vietnam to US mistake fare discussion - 2019 Cathay New Year's gift
#121
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
Is anyone who is familiar with TAs / fare releases see any pattern? Is it possible CX still has heavily restricted F inventory as they lick their wounds, and we might see some more seats come available for purchase later? Or is basically a ton of 2019 F class cash inventory just gone for good?
#122
Join Date: Oct 2012
Programs: CX - DM; Hilton - Diamond, Marriott - Titanium
Posts: 542
I'm hopeful this is the case. I looked at SFO in August, and A fares seem to be completely gone for the most part, and only a few F fares.
Is anyone who is familiar with TAs / fare releases see any pattern? Is it possible CX still has heavily restricted F inventory as they lick their wounds, and we might see some more seats come available for purchase later? Or is basically a ton of 2019 F class cash inventory just gone for good?
Is anyone who is familiar with TAs / fare releases see any pattern? Is it possible CX still has heavily restricted F inventory as they lick their wounds, and we might see some more seats come available for purchase later? Or is basically a ton of 2019 F class cash inventory just gone for good?
#123
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 481
#124
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,803
This isn't like Great Dane, where DOT will receive complaints and disclose how many were received (15,190 https://flightchic.com/2016/02/18/pa...usdot-reports/ )
#125
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: MPC-DM, Enrich-Plat
Posts: 1,310
Think it will be guesswork unless CX chooses to announce how many error fares it sold (hardly likely it will want to create more embarrassment).
This isn't like Great Dane, where DOT will receive complaints and disclose how many were received (15,190 https://flightchic.com/2016/02/18/pa...usdot-reports/ )
This isn't like Great Dane, where DOT will receive complaints and disclose how many were received (15,190 https://flightchic.com/2016/02/18/pa...usdot-reports/ )
#126
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
I've seen a figure of something like 15-16k tickets sold, being reported by CX to that press outlet, though I forgot where and whether that was only F or both F/J. Probably only F, though most people would have booked a lucky F fare anyway, given the small difference in price.
And many times there was no difference in price
#127
#128
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
I think back to how many friends were impressed when I told them I flew "first class" internationally. Wow, that must be nice. I flew first class between (2 US cities) once.
It isn't even comparable. And then only people who have flown first know what a drag flying business is. To others it is a treat.
#129
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vancouver
Programs: CX DM, SQ TPP, QF GO LIFE, OZ*G LIFE, Marriott TIT LIFE, WOH GLOBALIST LIFE, HH DM, BA GO LIFE
Posts: 598
What demonstrates is, CX has NO SAFE GUARD on anything in its system - how could there is no flags/alerts when the sales of premium cabin jumped in such rapid rate, and the inventory being wiped out thru the year so rapidly, to its biggest international destination - US?
There is seriously lacking of any kind of very basic checks, let alone AI, built in its yield management system.
Little wonder its customer base got hacked in such scale that no any other company has had as bad in such scale.
What is wrong with Cx these days? Before people claimed the former CEO was imcompetent. Now the new management has been in lace for almost 2 years by now? is just incimpetent or worse!
A poster named Gene, commented on One Mile at a Time that they were based in Hanoi and have booked SEVENTEEN tickets. S/he gloated that they would spend 2019 flying between Vietnam and JFK, feasting on Caviar and drinking Krug...
No way CX would honor these mistake fares. They should do what AF has done - downgrade those tickets to Y, and at the time of travel. That is Excactly what AF did on its mistake fare this March. People found their tickets downgraded to Y when they did their check in. Well deserved I would say.
I wish CX would just downgrade all the tickets to Y which are the fares belong. And these people have already passed their 24 hours free cancellation window, so either they fly the Y tickets, or pay $250 to cancel and get back the balance what they paid.
There is seriously lacking of any kind of very basic checks, let alone AI, built in its yield management system.
Little wonder its customer base got hacked in such scale that no any other company has had as bad in such scale.
What is wrong with Cx these days? Before people claimed the former CEO was imcompetent. Now the new management has been in lace for almost 2 years by now? is just incimpetent or worse!
A poster named Gene, commented on One Mile at a Time that they were based in Hanoi and have booked SEVENTEEN tickets. S/he gloated that they would spend 2019 flying between Vietnam and JFK, feasting on Caviar and drinking Krug...
No way CX would honor these mistake fares. They should do what AF has done - downgrade those tickets to Y, and at the time of travel. That is Excactly what AF did on its mistake fare this March. People found their tickets downgraded to Y when they did their check in. Well deserved I would say.
I wish CX would just downgrade all the tickets to Y which are the fares belong. And these people have already passed their 24 hours free cancellation window, so either they fly the Y tickets, or pay $250 to cancel and get back the balance what they paid.
Singapore Airlines had their share of mistake fares in Australia and their initial reaction was not to honor this (in true Singaporean style) but after a backlash from the consumers, they had to honor these.
What CX did was in good spirit of the mistake that happens in this industry. More power to CX for their decision. More business will be flowing to them as a result of their heroic action. Well done CX!
#130
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
Nothing is wrong with CX. Mistake fares happen to airlines.
Singapore Airlines had their share of mistake fares in Australia and their initial reaction was not to honor this (in true Singaporean style) but after a backlash from the consumers, they had to honor these.
What CX did was in good spirit of the mistake that happens in this industry. More power to CX for their decision. More business will be flowing to them as a result of their heroic action. Well done CX!
Singapore Airlines had their share of mistake fares in Australia and their initial reaction was not to honor this (in true Singaporean style) but after a backlash from the consumers, they had to honor these.
What CX did was in good spirit of the mistake that happens in this industry. More power to CX for their decision. More business will be flowing to them as a result of their heroic action. Well done CX!
But in terms of the name, reputation, that might be something. Because maybe some passengers will come into money later, and remember how Cathay did something nice for them once, before they made it ...
#131
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,803
I've seen a figure of something like 15-16k tickets sold, being reported by CX to that press outlet, though I forgot where and whether that was only F or both F/J. Probably only F, though most people would have booked a lucky F fare anyway, given the small difference in price.
If you do come across the source again pls post here.
#132
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,763
Haha okay, I'll just make myself clear then.
I'm not making an FT argument for argument's sake. On the back of my hand, I spent over 11 full days of my 2018 calendar year on Cathay Pacific and Cathay Dragon aircraft. Much of that in Cathay F, on A fares to North America. I do not have the luxury of flying around to score cheap fares, but I certainly don't hold it against those who do. And we all have our own ways to kill extra time (...I'm guilty of enjoying FT for one).
But I don't give a damn who is flying with me in F, or what they look like, or age, or their whatever. (I prefer quiet, but I've been disturbed in ALL classes before, and there doesn't seem to be a racial / age / economic reason behind the pax I don't get along with). I can't speak for many others, but at least many of my friends also fly Cathay F, and they don't strike me as those types either who care about what the person looks like across the aisle. So I think this argument is a bit of a strawman. Or at least, an FT argument against another FT argument. I just really don't like the insinuation there is some type of racism, or economic discrimination, or age discrimination, or something like that in my argument, hence my sensitivity. Let me make abundantly clear why I don't like this fare deal:
It takes away seats I might buy A fares on, or could use my Diamond certs on. I am shamelessly arguing my corner. No more no less. I suspect many do the same here.
CX made their business decision. I suspect I'll be making mine, maybe to JFK via Tokyo or SQ nonstop to SFO once or twice more than normal in 2019.
I'm not making an FT argument for argument's sake. On the back of my hand, I spent over 11 full days of my 2018 calendar year on Cathay Pacific and Cathay Dragon aircraft. Much of that in Cathay F, on A fares to North America. I do not have the luxury of flying around to score cheap fares, but I certainly don't hold it against those who do. And we all have our own ways to kill extra time (...I'm guilty of enjoying FT for one).
But I don't give a damn who is flying with me in F, or what they look like, or age, or their whatever. (I prefer quiet, but I've been disturbed in ALL classes before, and there doesn't seem to be a racial / age / economic reason behind the pax I don't get along with). I can't speak for many others, but at least many of my friends also fly Cathay F, and they don't strike me as those types either who care about what the person looks like across the aisle. So I think this argument is a bit of a strawman. Or at least, an FT argument against another FT argument. I just really don't like the insinuation there is some type of racism, or economic discrimination, or age discrimination, or something like that in my argument, hence my sensitivity. Let me make abundantly clear why I don't like this fare deal:
It takes away seats I might buy A fares on, or could use my Diamond certs on. I am shamelessly arguing my corner. No more no less. I suspect many do the same here.
CX made their business decision. I suspect I'll be making mine, maybe to JFK via Tokyo or SQ nonstop to SFO once or twice more than normal in 2019.
Lucky for us, our 2019 travel plan dont involve CX much - it will be largely on Star Alliance, and on QR.
I cannot remember which newspaper / media has claimed that CX source estimated 15 to 16K tickets sold. Hardest hit route should be the HKG-JFK-HKG because that was what being mentioned by the initial "breaking news". YVR and EWR followed. I saw BOS also being mentioned. Not a lot of West Coast. nor ORD, just from the posts on OMAAT blog.
Oh yeah, someone booked 34 F R/Ts...
There are some interesting things to ponder now the initial dusts have settled -
From normal business stand point, CX should not eat the losses. Yet they chose to...
Personally I feel CX made such decision not out of Goodwill, but after It has gone over the actual revenues from 2018 incl both the normal revenue and the revenue from both Asia miles and partner redemption, then may be the money brought in from this feeding frenzy would be more than offset the revenue from partner redemption? Asia miles redemption should also be accounted for as well... Instead of settling the cost of redemption with the partners, CX now rakes in similar or even more, cash for 2019 in just a few hours...
This is just another rub on the stingy release of saver level award to Asia Mile redemption.
There is a poster in Gary Leff's blog mentioning about "insurance" on "fat finger mistake" is another possible clause that CX decided to honor the fares. The poster claimed that such insurance exists for financial institutions which traders could make this type of mistakes... Is this kind of insurance even exists? Even it exists, seriously doubt CX would have the foresight to purchase coverage, considering how poorly it has been run in recent years.
One thing could be certain - CX would have yet another back to back year of loss for 2019,
Last edited by Happy; Jan 2, 2019 at 9:07 pm
#133
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Stockholm
Programs: SQ, SK, QR
Posts: 386
1. I thought there was absolutely 0% chance they'd honour the F fares. Many people predicted the F fares would be downgraded to J as well; I'm sure I'm not the only one who booked J with this line of reasoning.
2. I have DM upgrade certificates I thought I could use to get me into F anyway. This seems unlikely now...
There was probably no difference in price, but I could barely find dates for J anyway and booked after many thought the deal was already dead. Kinda wish I booked F, but definitely not complaining about J for under 1000USD. I'm still shocked they didn't cancel all tickets...
#134
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cairns, Australia
Posts: 924
In any case, surely a traveller would stand their ground for some decent compo, or rebooking to a flight with F, or both....?!
#135
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cairns, Australia
Posts: 924
I just really don't like the insinuation there is some type of racism, or economic discrimination, or age discrimination, or something like that in my argument, hence my sensitivity. Let me make abundantly clear why I don't like this fare deal:
It takes away seats I might buy A fares on, or could use my Diamond certs on. I am shamelessly arguing my corner. No more no less. I suspect many do the same here.
CX made their business decision. I suspect I'll be making mine, maybe to JFK via Tokyo or SQ nonstop to SFO once or twice more than normal in 2019.
It takes away seats I might buy A fares on, or could use my Diamond certs on. I am shamelessly arguing my corner. No more no less. I suspect many do the same here.
CX made their business decision. I suspect I'll be making mine, maybe to JFK via Tokyo or SQ nonstop to SFO once or twice more than normal in 2019.
Would you extend that argument to other forms of deep discounting - staff travel, a group discount, whatever?
The weakness in your argument is that your access to the A classic inventory is not a right, but rather totally subject to the commercial decisions / yield management strategy adopted by CX of which honouring the mistakes fares is just one element.
In any case, your fears may be somewhat over inflated:
1. The seats sold may not be in the numbers you fear
2. Many purchasers (accepting a strong US based audience of the frequent flyer blogs) may cancel once they confront the reality of two positioning flights, arranging the eVisa, etc., etc.
The latter case may even result in the release of an unpredicted bonanza of A class inventory in due course.
Your perfectly entitled to your position of course.