Vietnam to US mistake fare discussion - 2019 Cathay New Year's gift
Jan 1, 19, 7:08 pm
#48
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP, AS 75K, Marriott Titanium, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,838
What demonstrates is, CX has NO SAFE GUARD on anything in its system - how could there is no flags/alerts when the sales of premium cabin jumped in such rapid rate, and the inventory being wiped out thru the year so rapidly, to its biggest international destination - US?
There is seriously lacking of any kind of very basic checks, let alone AI, built in its yield management system.
There is seriously lacking of any kind of very basic checks, let alone AI, built in its yield management system.
Most analysts are often in charge of upwards of 20 markets, that's close to 100 flights a day, over 30,000 flights through EOS. There is no way for someone to sit around the computer all day and notice anomalies like that.
Furthermore, there are indeed systems in place to close out buckets (push inventory upwards) in the event that a particular route/date is booking too fast. However, nothing is instantaneous, and those data are often pulled once a day, which would've been too late for what happened yesterday
p.s. my mistake fare was a result of a system glitch that resulted in several peak holiday flights selling out the day the schedule opened...in mid buckets
Jan 1, 19, 7:12 pm
#49
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
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What demonstrates is, CX has NO SAFE GUARD on anything in its system - how could there is no flags/alerts when the sales of premium cabin jumped in such rapid rate, and the inventory being wiped out thru the year so rapidly, to its biggest international destination - US?
There is seriously lacking of any kind of very basic checks, let alone AI, built in its yield management system.
There is seriously lacking of any kind of very basic checks, let alone AI, built in its yield management system.
Jan 1, 19, 7:17 pm
#50
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: MP, BR
Posts: 374
What demonstrates is, CX has NO SAFE GUARD on anything in its system - how could there is no flags/alerts when the sales of premium cabin jumped in such rapid rate, and the inventory being wiped out thru the year so rapidly, to its biggest international destination - US?
There is seriously lacking of any kind of very basic checks, let alone AI, built in its yield management system.
Little wonder its customer base got hacked in such scale that no any other company has had as bad in such scale.
What is wrong with Cx these days? Before people claimed the former CEO was imcompetent. Now the new management has been in lace for almost 2 years by now? is just incimpetent or worse!
A poster named Gene, commented on One Mile at a Time that they were based in Hanoi and have booked SEVENTEEN tickets. S/he gloated that they would spend 2019 flying between Vietnam and JFK, feasting on Caviar and drinking Krug...
No way CX would honor these mistake fares. They should do what AF has done - downgrade those tickets to Y, and at the time of travel. That is Excactly what AF did on its mistake fare this March. People found their tickets downgraded to Y when they did their check in. Well deserved I would say.
I wish CX would just downgrade all the tickets to Y which are the fares belong. And these people have already passed their 24 hours free cancellation window, so either they fly the Y tickets, or pay $250 to cancel and get back the balance what they paid.
There is seriously lacking of any kind of very basic checks, let alone AI, built in its yield management system.
Little wonder its customer base got hacked in such scale that no any other company has had as bad in such scale.
What is wrong with Cx these days? Before people claimed the former CEO was imcompetent. Now the new management has been in lace for almost 2 years by now? is just incimpetent or worse!
A poster named Gene, commented on One Mile at a Time that they were based in Hanoi and have booked SEVENTEEN tickets. S/he gloated that they would spend 2019 flying between Vietnam and JFK, feasting on Caviar and drinking Krug...
No way CX would honor these mistake fares. They should do what AF has done - downgrade those tickets to Y, and at the time of travel. That is Excactly what AF did on its mistake fare this March. People found their tickets downgraded to Y when they did their check in. Well deserved I would say.
I wish CX would just downgrade all the tickets to Y which are the fares belong. And these people have already passed their 24 hours free cancellation window, so either they fly the Y tickets, or pay $250 to cancel and get back the balance what they paid.
From a pure business perspective, no way CX would honor these tickets. Risk of backlash from their upscale clients much bigger than any risk coming from these [purchasers].
Last edited by sxc; Jan 1, 19 at 8:07 pm Reason: Removed offensive label.
Jan 1, 19, 7:17 pm
#51
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 794
What demonstrates is, CX has NO SAFE GUARD on anything in its system - how could there is no flags/alerts when the sales of premium cabin jumped in such rapid rate, and the inventory being wiped out thru the year so rapidly, to its biggest international destination - US?
There is seriously lacking of any kind of very basic checks, let alone AI, built in its yield management system.
Little wonder its customer base got hacked in such scale that no any other company has had as bad in such scale.
What is wrong with Cx these days? Before people claimed the former CEO was imcompetent. Now the new management has been in lace for almost 2 years by now? is just incimpetent or worse!
A poster named Gene, commented on One Mile at a Time that they were based in Hanoi and have booked SEVENTEEN tickets. S/he gloated that they would spend 2019 flying between Vietnam and JFK, feasting on Caviar and drinking Krug...
No way CX would honor these mistake fares. They should do what AF has done - downgrade those tickets to Y, and at the time of travel. That is Excactly what AF did on its mistake fare this March. People found their tickets downgraded to Y when they did their check in. Well deserved I would say.
I wish CX would just downgrade all the tickets to Y which are the fares belong. And these people have already passed their 24 hours free cancellation window, so either they fly the Y tickets, or pay $250 to cancel and get back the balance what they paid.
There is seriously lacking of any kind of very basic checks, let alone AI, built in its yield management system.
Little wonder its customer base got hacked in such scale that no any other company has had as bad in such scale.
What is wrong with Cx these days? Before people claimed the former CEO was imcompetent. Now the new management has been in lace for almost 2 years by now? is just incimpetent or worse!
A poster named Gene, commented on One Mile at a Time that they were based in Hanoi and have booked SEVENTEEN tickets. S/he gloated that they would spend 2019 flying between Vietnam and JFK, feasting on Caviar and drinking Krug...
No way CX would honor these mistake fares. They should do what AF has done - downgrade those tickets to Y, and at the time of travel. That is Excactly what AF did on its mistake fare this March. People found their tickets downgraded to Y when they did their check in. Well deserved I would say.
I wish CX would just downgrade all the tickets to Y which are the fares belong. And these people have already passed their 24 hours free cancellation window, so either they fly the Y tickets, or pay $250 to cancel and get back the balance what they paid.
Why would anyone pay $250 to cancel Y fare? Are you that angry?
Jan 1, 19, 8:08 pm
#52
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Just a reminder that we need to keep all discussions civil, and nothing is gained from labelling people who did or did not take advantage of this situation.
Please keep discussions factual and no personal attacks or offensive labels.
sxc
Cathay Pacific Moderator
Please keep discussions factual and no personal attacks or offensive labels.
sxc
Cathay Pacific Moderator
Jan 1, 19, 8:20 pm
#53
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MNL
Programs: CX MPO DM, Le Club Accor Platinum, World of Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 2,284
Apparently you don't need to be a crazy rich asian to fly First Class either.
https://twitter.com/cathaypacific/st...08910783631363
https://twitter.com/cathaypacific/st...08910783631363
Jan 1, 19, 8:43 pm
#54
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: soon to be ex-HK (can't wait)
Programs: QF Emerald. SQ Gold. Anti CX
Posts: 3,032
i take a different view. CX.sold a product and purchaser bot it... any cancellation requires bilateral agreement you cant just VOID one side of contract. i am no legal expert but lets not get emotions out of way
so if the fare in question was 5k usd as opposed to 8k, can CX cancel? you see it opens up a whole gray area
so hope it stands.. meanwhile for those of you who bot F fares at more expensive rate now.is time to move ur business away
so if the fare in question was 5k usd as opposed to 8k, can CX cancel? you see it opens up a whole gray area
so hope it stands.. meanwhile for those of you who bot F fares at more expensive rate now.is time to move ur business away
Jan 1, 19, 9:06 pm
#55
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Join Date: May 2009
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https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showwiki.php?t=1704089
https://www.scribd.com/document/3613...Fare-Judgement (Bratwurst judgement)
https://www.scribd.com/doc/165664646...Fare-Judgement (Telford County Court)
British judges found for the passenger (awarded monetary compensation for the cancelled fare) in both cases - the passengers were able to show to the judge they have purchase history at those low fare levels, so it is not immediately apparent to them that airline made a mistake.
Purchase history was also cited by the HK Tribunal Officer in passing when dismissing Siemen Tsoi's claim for redemption downgrade compensation (Tsoi redeemed HKG-JFK J-->F upgrade, downgraded to J, AM refunded her miles, Tsoi claimed for revenue fare difference) last August.
???????????? ?????????????? - ?? - ???? - ???? Headline Daily
https://topick.hket.com/article/2008...95%97%E8%A8%B4
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30448677-post722.html
Last edited by percysmith; Jan 6, 19 at 1:26 am
Jan 1, 19, 9:21 pm
#56
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Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,467
*bolding mine
oh mate, isn't that a bit too rough?
Though, I must say, though I don't have anything against anyone purchasing an "extraordinary fare" such as this one, I find it quite disagreeable for one to take advantage and purchase multiple tickets, let alone 17 roundtrips. That amount in particular is just distasteful.
oh mate, isn't that a bit too rough?
Though, I must say, though I don't have anything against anyone purchasing an "extraordinary fare" such as this one, I find it quite disagreeable for one to take advantage and purchase multiple tickets, let alone 17 roundtrips. That amount in particular is just distasteful.
So in the future there would not be such feeding frenzy on mistake fares.
Chasing mistake fare is one thing, booking sizable number of trips is another. There are many posts about booking 4, 8, 9 trips but the 17 takes the cake.
These greedy people all think they have nothing to lose if the airlines dont honor the tickets, all they lose would be a temporary usage of their credit lines. Some even suggest to book the most expensive Nonrefundable related bookings, so to force CX to pay those expenses according to DOT's rules,
DOT's previous overly generous rules on airlines must honor their publicly available fares have led to the unforseen consequences that is clearly NOT DOT's original intention. That the frenzy of each time a mistake fare is found, fanned by the bloggers, have essentially made DOT rethinks its position, and let the airlines off the hook from some harsh punishment.
I say AF has done it right - change those F tickets to Y at check in, and let those greedy people to deal with the consequences.
Still, CX seriously needs some shake up in its operation. This fiasco just exposes yet another very serious issue that it does not have any safe guard in its system. How can a company of such size, and with such a long history in the industry, be so amateurish?
Last edited by Happy; Jan 1, 19 at 9:44 pm
Jan 1, 19, 9:29 pm
#57
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,467
On top of that there is no cheating on award tickets.
If my awards being downgraded involuntarily, I would get rebooked, or refunded with the miles differences if I accepted the downgrade, may even get some compensations.
Your analogy is not even relevant but that is OK.
$250 cancellation fee is in the fare rule of the tickets bought. Whether the downgrade to Y would void the $250 cancellation fee is unclear, but the A fare carries $250 cancellation fee.
Matter of fact there are already some posters chickened out when the 24 hours free cancellation window was running out.
People should have some common sense when chasing the mistake fares and not become overly greedy to book many tickets just because they can.
I fail to understand how people who bought the mistake fare think CX has to honor this when the fares have no historical pricing pattern to back them up. Not to mention some super greedy posters say they would book the most expensive non refundable hotels etc, so to force CX to reimburse them for such based on the DOT's rules. Fat Chance.
Last edited by Happy; Jan 1, 19 at 9:52 pm
Jan 1, 19, 9:38 pm
#58
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Interesting as to what AF did, but then who filled up the F seats? I would assume they have to oversell F (something that CX doesn't do) then downgrade these people.
From a pure business perspective, no way CX would honor these tickets. Risk of backlash from their upscale clients much bigger than any risk coming from these [purchasers].
From a pure business perspective, no way CX would honor these tickets. Risk of backlash from their upscale clients much bigger than any risk coming from these [purchasers].
AF does not need to oversell its F cabin to downgrade those mistake fare tickets. It simply needs to identify those tickets and flag such in the system. AF never noticed the ticket holders about the downgrades. It just did it when the ticketholder check in. That is the best part, the downgrades did not happen until within 24 hours of the departure. If you are interested you can read the old thread how the BAD NEWS being found out - when at OLCI, or in one poster's case, he is a travel agent so he has access to the reservation system and he saw his whole itinerary was downgraded to Y...
Jan 1, 19, 9:53 pm
#59
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 1,465
I pay the exact miles the award required. The CORRECT prices of whatever program I would be using. CX or whichever airlines used, gets the CORRECT miles it normally requires. The programs can and often, adjust the mileage required to redeem an award. An F R/T costs 220K AA miles or 140K AS miles, for the most obvious examples. Certainly not fly for pennies.
On top of that there is no cheating on award tickets.
If my awards being downgraded involuntarily, I would get rebooked, or refunded with the miles differences if I accepted the downgrade, may even get some compensations.
Your analogy is not even relevant but that is OK.
$250 cancellation fee is in the fare rule of the tickets bought. Whether the downgrade to Y would void the $250 cancellation fee is unclear, but the A fare carries $250 cancellation fee.
Matter of fact there are already some posters chickened out when the 24 hours free cancellation window was running out.
People should have some common sense when chasing the mistake fares and not become overly greedy to book many tickets just because they can.
I fail to understand how people who bought the mistake fare think CX has to honor this when the fares have no historical pricing pattern to back them up. Not to mention some super greedy posters say they would book the most expensive non refundable hotels etc, so to force CX to reimburse them for such based on the DOT's rules. Fat Chance.
On top of that there is no cheating on award tickets.
If my awards being downgraded involuntarily, I would get rebooked, or refunded with the miles differences if I accepted the downgrade, may even get some compensations.
Your analogy is not even relevant but that is OK.
$250 cancellation fee is in the fare rule of the tickets bought. Whether the downgrade to Y would void the $250 cancellation fee is unclear, but the A fare carries $250 cancellation fee.
Matter of fact there are already some posters chickened out when the 24 hours free cancellation window was running out.
People should have some common sense when chasing the mistake fares and not become overly greedy to book many tickets just because they can.
I fail to understand how people who bought the mistake fare think CX has to honor this when the fares have no historical pricing pattern to back them up. Not to mention some super greedy posters say they would book the most expensive non refundable hotels etc, so to force CX to reimburse them for such based on the DOT's rules. Fat Chance.
Jan 1, 19, 10:00 pm
#60
Join Date: Jun 2007
Programs: SQ AA TK
Posts: 1,428
I would be very surprised if they honoured this, because it's F. The inventory lock up for 2019 to real paying customers, not to mention you'll have half the cabin filled with wrong clientele, who may or may not behave appropriately onboard.
If it was J, I think there would be a chance this is honoured. Maybe they'll downgrade the F guys to J with no addtional refund, since, the number of F tickets sold should not be as bad, given there are at most A3 on most flights at time of booking.
If it was J, I think there would be a chance this is honoured. Maybe they'll downgrade the F guys to J with no addtional refund, since, the number of F tickets sold should not be as bad, given there are at most A3 on most flights at time of booking.
