brunos

Then I got lucky 50%. It was a dirt-cheap Y ticket for vacation with a short flight, so no complain.

BTW: one of the benefit of J on regional flight is to be able to disembark first and be out of the airport fast (always without checked bags). But with KA island (or bus gates), you are first in the bus, but have to wait until the other Y pax disembark and join you in the bus. It kills that benefit. Last week, I landed at KA island at 11pm after a tiring work day, arrived in the bus and had to wait some ten minutes for other pax to fill it, then another long time to let two longhaul ac pass. That's not what I expect when I pay J.

CX30616

KA do have a regional red-eyes from hnd KA397 which last for almost 5 hours, and it is operated by A320, which makes no point to take it. Seriously, why do I need to take a recliner when I paid J fare, especially in a red-eyes flight? Really considering switching my business to JL/NH

percysmith

KA397 is to get more utilisation out of their regional fleet. Same rationale as other Japan redeyes i.e. CX524 and CX566.

They are competing for LCC customers - there's a UO flight leaving HND around the same time. The reason I take the KA397 over the latter is for luggage - so you can imagine CX/KA's yield on those.

No point sparing long haul equipment for this.

Btw I think KA397 will be discontinued this winter - even CX can't stand the yields.

Cathay Dragon 666

Business Class are aimed at frequently traveling businessmen, like myself and many people here. Frequent traveling drains your body, and any chance we get for a decent sleep, even a 2-hour nap (flat), is a great bonus. So I disagree with the "short-haul doesn't need full flat" mentality. On many short-haul stops I find a full-flat seat very beneficial as I can get a great rest, disembark, and hit the ground running. Rather than getting drain by the flight, tired, and had to spend time at the hotel recuperating.

This is why I do try to travel on KA when it's short-haul. Their "almost-flat" C seats are that much better than the travesty that Cathay offers.

QRC3288

? The KA J seats are now all identical to the CX regional J seats. It is fair to say they are all bad.

I agree with everything else in your post though.

I'd just like to reiterate I find BOTH CX and KAs regional biz classes a travesty!

TomYoung

ht seems CX management has totally lost the plot. Miserable food , wine and seats. Who is going to pay to fly regional bizzo? Only those connecting to a long haul flight. Not me. I now use miles to redeem PY regional or fly Thai bizzo. Most frequently I fly between my wife's home in Manila and mine in Hong Kong. Fortunately I'm retired so wandering via Bangkok does not hurt beyond the pathetic airport. Thai has consistent reasonable seats, four choices of main course, far superior wines, a decent starter and competitive prices.

QRC3288

the CX dine on demand concept is definitely a major improvement.

it remains to be seen if they'll roll it out regionally. I last met with mgmt about 3 weeks ago, and they all said it would be totally rolled out across the fleet by late 2018 (the true rollout begins either late 3Q or 4Q 2017, and it will take about a year to train up all the staff and figure it all out). What I forgot to ask if they're referring to all longhaul only, which was a given, or they're talking about all business class inc. regional biz. If CX is rolling this out across business class fleetwide including regional biz, they are going to be among if not the top regional catering.....let's see. But this would be a major, major improvement. The long-haul dine on demand concept is a major upgrade for food quality. Frankly, the food is similar quality to the F stuff, and more abundant choices. The only difference is you don't have the bling options like a tin of caviar and lobster.

(for the record, mgmt also said they may have to "consider" upgrading F dining, and the way it was said led me to believe this is certainly not in the works right now. It's not like there is a pending plan or anything).

However, completely agree with your gist and yes the plot has indeed been lost regionally. Another problem is they don't fully grasp just how "LCC-like" their 33P config is, with atrocious staff : pax ratios in Y, and just how terrible their regional hard product is.

If I had the theoretical choice (which you never do because of fleet configs), I'd take PEY regionally over regional biz any day. The regional biz hard product is just THAT bad. The problem, of course is that PEY is only available on long-haul birds, which renders this choice moot. So with Cx it always boils down to whether or not you get the long-haul config, and there is still no reliable way to guarantee this except once a day to HND. Sure, some routes have extremely reliable equipment USUALLY, but the catch is CX will randomly swap it on you at a moment's notice and the streak is broken.

TomYoung

I book PY some time ahead. When there is an aircraft change I receive a phone call or email offering an upgrade, except in one instance. I can then check what the replacement bird is and either accept the upgrade if it is a 333 without PY or request a change to another flight that has PY.

I have never been refused dine on demand, but it has always been the same food as is on the menu. The quality remains average, choice minimal and wine miserable.

QRC3288

I think you might be confused.

Dine on demand is a new catering thing from CX. Right now only available to LGW and ORD, and rolling out to more destinations later this year. It will be fleetwide by late next year.

The menu is totally different. I've tried at least half the items. Nothing like the existing crap J class food. Genuine improvement in the wine list too.

A lot of question marks still remain....will they keep it this good once they start the full roll out later this year.....but anyway it's somethinf new, and definitely not what you're referring to. I hate the existing J class food too.

TomYoung

Perhaps they should have called it something else," a la carte dining" for example.

1010101

But it's not a la carte. It's dining on demand

Gongzuokuang

I needed to fly to Manila from Hong Kong, and timing pushed me to Philippine Air instead of CX. It's only a 2 hour flight, so I would presume it's what they would consider "regional"?

Anyway, I was REALLY happy with the business class on Philippine Air. I know this is nothing new, but it's the first time I flew it. They call it "layered" seating. I can see how it might be awkward to try to get out of the seat if you are near the window and the aisle guy is laying flat.

It it was alot cheaper than CX. I didn't decide based on price; it was the schedule. I would've had less than an hour to transfer at HKIA. When I checked-in at ORD, I asked them to check my bag through to Philippine Air. The counter lady asked why I didn't choose CX, and I said schedule. She said, "Oh, we would hold the plane for you."

Anyway, after boarding the plane I was really happy with my decision.

http://www.airlinetrends.com/2014/06...-on-its-a330s/

ijgordon

If its that important for you to lie down for a 2 hour flight, buy three coach seats. @:-)

I'm guessing the yields/fares don't justify a less dense seating arrangement.
And I don't get the hate here for the CX J seats, especially on regional flights that aren't usually more than 3-4 hours, right? Even to DPS I thought they were fine. Try flying regionally in the US, or even worse, Europe.

I do completely agree with the CX (and KA) J catering though...

cx4ever

Uhh... the Sogerma layered design is one of the worst "modern" long-haul business class products in the industry. It maintains the old 2-2-2 configuration, so not everyone has aisle access. There is also very limited storage, almost everything has to be placed in overhead bins. You do get extra storage on Philippine Airlines because they opted to not give you AVOD. Really?
Additionally, since you can't really adjust the TV screen (if its even there), it becomes annoying when you recline the seat because it moves partially up or down (as it prepares to go into bed mode), so the screen is never at your eye level. It feels like a great idea in theory, but it's not practical.

Obviously it's cheaper, but CX is by far worth the money if you get a LH config. I guess the main problem is that the plane type is pretty unreliable.

percysmith

Oh! I thought it was the proposed next-gen JAL seat https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2016/0...usiness-class/ . But JAL's Zodiac which is not PAL's Sogerma