Rumor: MPC will go way of PPS
Feb 25, 2015, 8:14 pm
#526
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,978
A little OT, but will Pier keep the "day-break room" with personal TV and such, it was a great concept and I love it....
Feb 25, 2015, 10:09 pm
#527
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,807
Its not like much of us have a choice of airline anyway. We get a bucket of eligible partner airlines/fare buckets to choose from depending on where we're going and unless there's something ridiculously wrong with an airline, most would choose a direct flight over connection.
Feb 26, 2015, 12:04 am
#528
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If true, it'll make better sense for CX to free up its lounges for a foreign non-MPO elite than to use it for its local MPOs...?!
In effect, ure correct.
Originally Posted by percysmith
Its not like much of us have a choice of airline anyway. We get a bucket of eligible partner airlines/fare buckets to choose from depending on where we're going and unless there's something ridiculously wrong with an airline, most would choose a direct flight over connection.
Mar 1, 2015, 10:10 pm
#529
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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F class award only for AM / MPC?
SQ restricts their F and Suite class awards to KF only. LH / LX restricts their F awards only to their highest tier members of their M&M programme and AF restricts their F awards only to their own elite members.
Do you think CX should do the same? But maybe follow SQ's example.. restrict F class award space only to AMs? Or charge double to partner airlines. Currently AM members get whacked with higher award redemption rates than their OW partners.
Do you think CX should do the same? But maybe follow SQ's example.. restrict F class award space only to AMs? Or charge double to partner airlines. Currently AM members get whacked with higher award redemption rates than their OW partners.
Mar 1, 2015, 10:31 pm
#530
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 267
Unlike SQ, I think making this F redemption restriction will have less of an impact to CX, as far as the whole network is concerned.
SQ has some type of F product pretty much on every long haul plane configuration (the 772/E is the only long haul without it currently), whereas CX tends to run few F heavy routes with multiple 77Hs per day and then the rest of the long haul destinations run without F on the 77G/33G.
So essentially, this change will impact the CX flyers to North America the most, along with few European destinations like LHR etc. but will have little impact to the others outside of these regions.
SQ has some type of F product pretty much on every long haul plane configuration (the 772/E is the only long haul without it currently), whereas CX tends to run few F heavy routes with multiple 77Hs per day and then the rest of the long haul destinations run without F on the 77G/33G.
So essentially, this change will impact the CX flyers to North America the most, along with few European destinations like LHR etc. but will have little impact to the others outside of these regions.
Mar 1, 2015, 10:39 pm
#531
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I believe they should rectify this is a way or another. Award redemptions for status members inly might be one.
Also, they are probably looking into smaller F cabins as the demand is dropping and J hard product improving
Originally Posted by Guy Betsy
SQ restricts their F and Suite class awards to KF only. LH / LX restricts their F awards only to their highest tier members of their M&M programme and AF restricts their F awards only to their own elite members.
Do you think CX should do the same? But maybe follow SQ's example.. restrict F class award space only to AMs? Or charge double to partner airlines. Currently AM members get whacked with higher award redemption rates than their OW partners.
Do you think CX should do the same? But maybe follow SQ's example.. restrict F class award space only to AMs? Or charge double to partner airlines. Currently AM members get whacked with higher award redemption rates than their OW partners.
Also, they are probably looking into smaller F cabins as the demand is dropping and J hard product improving
Mar 2, 2015, 12:33 am
#532
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
SQ restricts their F and Suite class awards to KF only. LH / LX restricts their F awards only to their highest tier members of their M&M programme and AF restricts their F awards only to their own elite members.
Do you think CX should do the same? But maybe follow SQ's example.. restrict F class award space only to AMs? Or charge double to partner airlines. Currently AM members get whacked with higher award redemption rates than their OW partners.
Do you think CX should do the same? But maybe follow SQ's example.. restrict F class award space only to AMs? Or charge double to partner airlines. Currently AM members get whacked with higher award redemption rates than their OW partners.
As a rather loyal MPC Diamond/AM member, I've tried many times before to redeem F (upgrade from J) and not been successful. I've posted on here the comedy of trying to redeem a J-F upgrade award a few weeks in advance, only to be denied. Upon flying, I got op-upped to F, with a bunch of AA redemption passengers in F. That clearly is a fail on behalf of CX's revenue department.
I fly primarily long-haul to North America, and anyone who flies F to/from NA will notice that probably half, if not more, of the passengers in the F cabins are AA redeemers. As I've said in the past, CX seems utterly addicted to this revenue stream, and I can't fault the AA guys for it...I'd do the same if I were them. But CX is blatantly hurting its own mileage program. The far-in-advance redeemers are overwhelmingly AA guys burning their hard earned miles on one of OW's best carriers. Often for vacation. While folks like me, who commit plenty of $$ to CX over the years but who use AM more often try to burn our miles last minute (which is very typical of business travelers...), can't use them. It's just an idiotic set of incentives CX has setup.
Some say, well just try to upgrade at the airport. But I don't like playing the merry-go-round BS where CX won't confirm our tickets in advance. If I call 3 weeks in advance, and CX can't confirm (even if there are 1 or 2 F seats left for sale, as is common), I usually drop it. Why? 1.) Because I don't like the uncertainty, and 2.) Because the "upgrade at the airport" thing with Asia Miles is crap for the following reasons:
1.) The previous MPC/Asia Miles waiting list, which I might've been on for 3 weeks, is cleared at the airport in favor of a first-come-first-serve basis. I typically fly for business and arrive late. Inevitably I lose here. Very frustrating the first few times I realized this...I was first on the waiting list for literally 3 weeks. And then I got to the airport, there was a seat open, but another DM behind me on the MPC waiting list arrived at SFO ahead of me and snagged the only Instant Upgrade available because the waitlist resets at the airport. Awesome. Not.
2.) The crew onboard thinks you've been op-upped, and you often get your last meal choice. I'm not a fan, especially since it's clearly a glitch in the system that CX has let sit there for years. Yes, folks if you use "Instant Upgrade", the crew on board see you as an involuntary upgrade on the passenger information list. Also frustrating because you spend miles for that upgrade!
Anyway, this is one of the many ways CX has downgraded MPC via small papercuts over the last 3-4 years and it's finally coming back to bite them. In the past, seats available seats for sale would've almost always been released to a DM. In the last few years, they stopped that (around the same time they issued freebie DM status to a bunch of Centurion members). I've spent close to $10k USD in the last 6 weeks on competitor airlines, which would've gone to CX in the past.
Mar 2, 2015, 1:40 am
#533
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX Diamond (OW Emerald), former SQ Krisflyer Gold
Posts: 2,527
2.) The crew onboard thinks you've been op-upped, and you often get your last meal choice. I'm not a fan, especially since it's clearly a glitch in the system that CX has let sit there for years. Yes, folks if you use "Instant Upgrade", the crew on board see you as an involuntary upgrade on the passenger information list. Also frustrating because you spend miles for that upgrade!
Mar 2, 2015, 7:59 am
#534
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: HKG
Programs: CX DM, SPG Pt, Le Club Accor GO, Shangri-La GC Jade
Posts: 1,327
I think it vary from crew to crew on how to serve an op-up, or the DM in J. I found that I got priority choice of meal in J randomly (and Y as well), and is not connected with whether I'm op-up, U, I or full fare J
Mar 2, 2015, 8:13 am
#535
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ...
Programs: CX DM / SQ PPS / VN Platinum
Posts: 1,078
mate, I could not agree more with your sentiment.
As a rather loyal MPC Diamond/AM member, I've tried many times before to redeem F (upgrade from J) and not been successful. I've posted on here the comedy of trying to redeem a J-F upgrade award a few weeks in advance, only to be denied. Upon flying, I got op-upped to F, with a bunch of AA redemption passengers in F. That clearly is a fail on behalf of CX's revenue department.
I fly primarily long-haul to North America, and anyone who flies F to/from NA will notice that probably half, if not more, of the passengers in the F cabins are AA redeemers. As I've said in the past, CX seems utterly addicted to this revenue stream, and I can't fault the AA guys for it...I'd do the same if I were them. But CX is blatantly hurting its own mileage program. The far-in-advance redeemers are overwhelmingly AA guys burning their hard earned miles on one of OW's best carriers. Often for vacation. While folks like me, who commit plenty of $$ to CX over the years but who use AM more often try to burn our miles last minute (which is very typical of business travelers...), can't use them. It's just an idiotic set of incentives CX has setup.
Some say, well just try to upgrade at the airport. But I don't like playing the merry-go-round BS where CX won't confirm our tickets in advance. If I call 3 weeks in advance, and CX can't confirm (even if there are 1 or 2 F seats left for sale, as is common), I usually drop it. Why? 1.) Because I don't like the uncertainty, and 2.) Because the "upgrade at the airport" thing with Asia Miles is crap for the following reasons:
1.) The previous MPC/Asia Miles waiting list, which I might've been on for 3 weeks, is cleared at the airport in favor of a first-come-first-serve basis. I typically fly for business and arrive late. Inevitably I lose here. Very frustrating the first few times I realized this...I was first on the waiting list for literally 3 weeks. And then I got to the airport, there was a seat open, but another DM behind me on the MPC waiting list arrived at SFO ahead of me and snagged the only Instant Upgrade available because the waitlist resets at the airport. Awesome. Not.
2.) The crew onboard thinks you've been op-upped, and you often get your last meal choice. I'm not a fan, especially since it's clearly a glitch in the system that CX has let sit there for years. Yes, folks if you use "Instant Upgrade", the crew on board see you as an involuntary upgrade on the passenger information list. Also frustrating because you spend miles for that upgrade!
Anyway, this is one of the many ways CX has downgraded MPC via small papercuts over the last 3-4 years and it's finally coming back to bite them. In the past, seats available seats for sale would've almost always been released to a DM. In the last few years, they stopped that (around the same time they issued freebie DM status to a bunch of Centurion members). I've spent close to $10k USD in the last 6 weeks on competitor airlines, which would've gone to CX in the past.
As a rather loyal MPC Diamond/AM member, I've tried many times before to redeem F (upgrade from J) and not been successful. I've posted on here the comedy of trying to redeem a J-F upgrade award a few weeks in advance, only to be denied. Upon flying, I got op-upped to F, with a bunch of AA redemption passengers in F. That clearly is a fail on behalf of CX's revenue department.
I fly primarily long-haul to North America, and anyone who flies F to/from NA will notice that probably half, if not more, of the passengers in the F cabins are AA redeemers. As I've said in the past, CX seems utterly addicted to this revenue stream, and I can't fault the AA guys for it...I'd do the same if I were them. But CX is blatantly hurting its own mileage program. The far-in-advance redeemers are overwhelmingly AA guys burning their hard earned miles on one of OW's best carriers. Often for vacation. While folks like me, who commit plenty of $$ to CX over the years but who use AM more often try to burn our miles last minute (which is very typical of business travelers...), can't use them. It's just an idiotic set of incentives CX has setup.
Some say, well just try to upgrade at the airport. But I don't like playing the merry-go-round BS where CX won't confirm our tickets in advance. If I call 3 weeks in advance, and CX can't confirm (even if there are 1 or 2 F seats left for sale, as is common), I usually drop it. Why? 1.) Because I don't like the uncertainty, and 2.) Because the "upgrade at the airport" thing with Asia Miles is crap for the following reasons:
1.) The previous MPC/Asia Miles waiting list, which I might've been on for 3 weeks, is cleared at the airport in favor of a first-come-first-serve basis. I typically fly for business and arrive late. Inevitably I lose here. Very frustrating the first few times I realized this...I was first on the waiting list for literally 3 weeks. And then I got to the airport, there was a seat open, but another DM behind me on the MPC waiting list arrived at SFO ahead of me and snagged the only Instant Upgrade available because the waitlist resets at the airport. Awesome. Not.
2.) The crew onboard thinks you've been op-upped, and you often get your last meal choice. I'm not a fan, especially since it's clearly a glitch in the system that CX has let sit there for years. Yes, folks if you use "Instant Upgrade", the crew on board see you as an involuntary upgrade on the passenger information list. Also frustrating because you spend miles for that upgrade!
Anyway, this is one of the many ways CX has downgraded MPC via small papercuts over the last 3-4 years and it's finally coming back to bite them. In the past, seats available seats for sale would've almost always been released to a DM. In the last few years, they stopped that (around the same time they issued freebie DM status to a bunch of Centurion members). I've spent close to $10k USD in the last 6 weeks on competitor airlines, which would've gone to CX in the past.
Amen!
Would add that I have had surprising high success rate in calling MPC <24 hours before flight time for the J-> F upgrade, where I have failed to get off a waiting list over the course of several weeks. Frustrating, but it gets me into F. At least they usually give me 2A in those cases!
Mar 2, 2015, 3:26 pm
#536
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,978
Looks like CX is having a typical Chinese-company mentality (pretty surprising because all major higher management are still Caucasians, no?) Which are:
1) Treat your own customer base like crap, thinking you already got them and they are not going away even if you treat them like crap
2) Make every attempt to grab revenue. CX is pretty much addicted to lounge fees, and redemption fees they get from other OW airlines, even at the detriment of their own base.
3) Cut services and standards slowly, thinking pax will get used to them anyway and stick with you
4) The way to replace lost loyal-base is not better your product, but to use gimmicks to attract new customers (Centurion DM give-away, etc.;cheap Y fares in select routes)
CX is definitely doing things that had doom many corporations in the past, I just hope they realized that and steps on the brakes....
1) Treat your own customer base like crap, thinking you already got them and they are not going away even if you treat them like crap
2) Make every attempt to grab revenue. CX is pretty much addicted to lounge fees, and redemption fees they get from other OW airlines, even at the detriment of their own base.
3) Cut services and standards slowly, thinking pax will get used to them anyway and stick with you
4) The way to replace lost loyal-base is not better your product, but to use gimmicks to attract new customers (Centurion DM give-away, etc.;cheap Y fares in select routes)
CX is definitely doing things that had doom many corporations in the past, I just hope they realized that and steps on the brakes....
Mar 2, 2015, 6:14 pm
#537
Join Date: Apr 2014
Programs: JGC Sapphire
Posts: 283
It doesn't matter who the managers are, it is the customers that matters...
Btw, SQ's outport service is excellent, but in Singapore it is HORRIBLE....not to mention you would probably be paying double for a BA club world seat if it is ex-UK...
If you live in the UK, you can at least go to CX, SQ, ME3, LH....but if you live in HK you rarely have better choice other than CX, maybe BR? Frequency is nowhere near CX though...
Originally Posted by Guy Betsy
SQ restricts their F and Suite class awards to KF only. LH / LX restricts their F awards only to their highest tier members of their M&M programme and AF restricts their F awards only to their own elite members.
Do you think CX should do the same? But maybe follow SQ's example.. restrict F class award space only to AMs? Or charge double to partner airlines. Currently AM members get whacked with higher award redemption rates than their OW partners.
Do you think CX should do the same? But maybe follow SQ's example.. restrict F class award space only to AMs? Or charge double to partner airlines. Currently AM members get whacked with higher award redemption rates than their OW partners.
Some airline would release redemption seat about 330 days before flight, which is available to OW FFPs, but if these redemption seats have been taken, you can only waitlist, and only their own FFP members can waitlist.
JAL is doing this and they would release seats 5-7 days before flight, I don't even have problem getting an upgrade seat while I was a JMB Crystal (OWR). They were giving their last business class seat to a lower JMB Crystal (OWR) 5-7 days before departure on a peak season (Mid-December on EU-Tokyo route), and on the same date I can see all ex-EU premium cabin's availability becomes zero, which I believe they are all released to JMB members.
CX can certainly do this, but just like what Cathay Boy said, CX decides NOT to do that for their own members.
Last edited by nshizuka25; Mar 2, 2015 at 6:22 pm
Mar 7, 2015, 5:19 pm
#538
Join Date: Apr 2014
Programs: JGC Sapphire
Posts: 283
HBO fares - Have to pay to select seat in advance [even for GCH/SCH/BCHs]
BA has just striped away some elite status benefits from deep discount ticket holders.
BA elites would no longer be able to select seat in advance on HBO(Hand baggage only) fare.
Not sure if this would apply to other OW Elites, but likely to be the case, as JL already has this practice.
This might provide some hints on how CX would act...
BA has just striped away some elite status benefits from deep discount ticket holders.
BA elites would no longer be able to select seat in advance on HBO(Hand baggage only) fare.
Not sure if this would apply to other OW Elites, but likely to be the case, as JL already has this practice.
This might provide some hints on how CX would act...
Mar 7, 2015, 8:35 pm
#539
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Little dot in Asia
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mate, I could not agree more with your sentiment.
As a rather loyal MPC Diamond/AM member, I've tried many times before to redeem F (upgrade from J) and not been successful. I've posted on here the comedy of trying to redeem a J-F upgrade award a few weeks in advance, only to be denied. Upon flying, I got op-upped to F, with a bunch of AA redemption passengers in F. That clearly is a fail on behalf of CX's revenue department.
I fly primarily long-haul to North America, and anyone who flies F to/from NA will notice that probably half, if not more, of the passengers in the F cabins are AA redeemers. As I've said in the past, CX seems utterly addicted to this revenue stream, and I can't fault the AA guys for it...I'd do the same if I were them. But CX is blatantly hurting its own mileage program. The far-in-advance redeemers are overwhelmingly AA guys burning their hard earned miles on one of OW's best carriers. Often for vacation. While folks like me, who commit plenty of $$ to CX over the years but who use AM more often try to burn our miles last minute (which is very typical of business travelers...), can't use them. It's just an idiotic set of incentives CX has setup.....
As a rather loyal MPC Diamond/AM member, I've tried many times before to redeem F (upgrade from J) and not been successful. I've posted on here the comedy of trying to redeem a J-F upgrade award a few weeks in advance, only to be denied. Upon flying, I got op-upped to F, with a bunch of AA redemption passengers in F. That clearly is a fail on behalf of CX's revenue department.
I fly primarily long-haul to North America, and anyone who flies F to/from NA will notice that probably half, if not more, of the passengers in the F cabins are AA redeemers. As I've said in the past, CX seems utterly addicted to this revenue stream, and I can't fault the AA guys for it...I'd do the same if I were them. But CX is blatantly hurting its own mileage program. The far-in-advance redeemers are overwhelmingly AA guys burning their hard earned miles on one of OW's best carriers. Often for vacation. While folks like me, who commit plenty of $$ to CX over the years but who use AM more often try to burn our miles last minute (which is very typical of business travelers...), can't use them. It's just an idiotic set of incentives CX has setup.....
Mar 7, 2015, 8:40 pm
#540
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 253
How can you tell if someone is using their miles vs. paying for First class tickets?