Class Upgrade Bidding Initiative - your feedback sought
May 30, 2014, 9:28 am
#106
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1
NFW
This is a big FU to Diamond (and Gold) members who pay a premium to fly Cathay to retain their status.
Wake up!
Putting this half baked idea out there is already making me think it's all not going to be worth the effort because CX is desperate and is selling us out.
Might as well just shop every segment on price!
Swire used to have a certain standard of CLASS, unwavering service AND capability to GROW the business. Seems the short sighted local traders have wormed their way beyond their competence.
15yrs and 2.5m miles.
Wake up!
Putting this half baked idea out there is already making me think it's all not going to be worth the effort because CX is desperate and is selling us out.
Might as well just shop every segment on price!
Swire used to have a certain standard of CLASS, unwavering service AND capability to GROW the business. Seems the short sighted local traders have wormed their way beyond their competence.
15yrs and 2.5m miles.
May 30, 2014, 9:33 am
#107
Formerly known as jsfrSuperElite
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hong Kong, Montreal
Programs: Air Canada SE100K-1MM, Hilton Honors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 590
With these R or W fare classes, take for instance a Toronto - Hong Kong, departing on June 7th and returning June 12th, the cost of a premium economy round trip is CAD 8684 and I can not even be sure that there will be availability in business class if I want to use my miles.
Add to this a bidding system for upgrades that will reduce business class seat availability, then honestly what are the incentives for paying these premium economy fares when I can book a business class ticket on another carrier for the same price??
May 30, 2014, 6:11 pm
#108
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: CX Diamond, BA Gold, Flying Blue Platinum (For Life), Royal Orchid Sliver
Posts: 44
slap in the face
Dear Agency Guy
I suspect when you started this post you couldn't possibly imagine the damage it would do to your client.
The sentiment of this bidding concept is tantamount to a huge slap in face for CX elites, who are the backbone of revenue generation.
As a DM for over 10 years and 1,750,000 club miles I would not hesitate to stop flŷing CX immediately, if this system was introduced.
It would seem that you have single handedly managed to upset and alienate CX's most important customer base.
I suspect when you started this post you couldn't possibly imagine the damage it would do to your client.
The sentiment of this bidding concept is tantamount to a huge slap in face for CX elites, who are the backbone of revenue generation.
As a DM for over 10 years and 1,750,000 club miles I would not hesitate to stop flŷing CX immediately, if this system was introduced.
It would seem that you have single handedly managed to upset and alienate CX's most important customer base.
May 30, 2014, 6:16 pm
#109
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 9
Horrible idea!
If you must implement this at least only offer it soley to your GO and DM members - those that spend thousands of $$ on your company each year. Not just open to everyone who buys a cheap ticket, and expect to be bid up to PEY and J. Make it exclusive - sort of like the GO/DM seat guarantee benefit.
If you must implement this at least only offer it soley to your GO and DM members - those that spend thousands of $$ on your company each year. Not just open to everyone who buys a cheap ticket, and expect to be bid up to PEY and J. Make it exclusive - sort of like the GO/DM seat guarantee benefit.
May 30, 2014, 6:27 pm
#110
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: OneWorld Emerald (BA GGL), *A Silver (Miles & Less), Skyteam Pleb (KLM FlyingBlue), Mucci Platinum
Posts: 907
I do sincerely hope that CX management is aware of the implications of a fundamental shift in their thinking from a relationship mentality ("build a strong relationship with customers and they will come back, thus benefitting you with recurring revenues") to a transactional mentality ("give me money now, and I will give you back a one-time benefit immediately").
In some industries, the latter makes more business sense. However, they (CX management) only have to peruse through the UA board to understand the long-term commercial implications of doing so in the airline industry, as the revenues gained from the additional TODS and HODS ("tens of dollars / hundreds of dollars") on each upsell is outweighed by the hollowing-out of previously loyal long-term customers.
In some industries, the latter makes more business sense. However, they (CX management) only have to peruse through the UA board to understand the long-term commercial implications of doing so in the airline industry, as the revenues gained from the additional TODS and HODS ("tens of dollars / hundreds of dollars") on each upsell is outweighed by the hollowing-out of previously loyal long-term customers.
May 30, 2014, 7:14 pm
#111
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Don't know....
Programs: BA LTG, SQ TPPS, CX DMP, AA EXP, Bonvoy LTT, ALL PLT, Hilton DM
Posts: 4,010
I fail to understand the logic. Why should some stop flying CX simply because CX offering bids.
As a company, not to mentioned publicly listed, CX has its obligation to maximizing its revenue which hopefully will turn intoprofit.
To me, the bids is just like another deep discounted fare with the condition of no guarantee of seat (or downgrade) when the bids is not successful.
So I guess this will not make so much different with the Involuntary ops up situation for the premium pax. The only difference is CX will get extra $$$ instead of giving it for free.
If someone got upgraded to F, the paying passenger is still get their own seats, meals, etc right? Also there is always possibility someone next to me pay cheaper fare while I pay higher fare.
So I cannot understand the logic.
As a company, not to mentioned publicly listed, CX has its obligation to maximizing its revenue which hopefully will turn intoprofit.
To me, the bids is just like another deep discounted fare with the condition of no guarantee of seat (or downgrade) when the bids is not successful.
So I guess this will not make so much different with the Involuntary ops up situation for the premium pax. The only difference is CX will get extra $$$ instead of giving it for free.
If someone got upgraded to F, the paying passenger is still get their own seats, meals, etc right? Also there is always possibility someone next to me pay cheaper fare while I pay higher fare.
So I cannot understand the logic.
May 30, 2014, 9:05 pm
#112
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX (elite) and a few others (non-elite)
Posts: 687
For Group A, even if the passenger is "forced" to buy a premium ticket in order not to risk bidding and losing a nice seat, his ticket is fully changeable and refundable and there is nothing to stop him or her from buying a lower class ticket (changeable even at a fee or refundable no less) and then bidding on it to see if it works.
May 30, 2014, 11:16 pm
#113
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SIN
Programs: TK-G | Accor P | SQ-G | Marriott T
Posts: 3,831
I was told this is not possible on CX.... I would have done so if it is possible.
Last edited by lingua101; May 30, 2014 at 11:53 pm
May 30, 2014, 11:52 pm
#114
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SIN
Programs: TK-G | Accor P | SQ-G | Marriott T
Posts: 3,831
You are right, you used the term "deep discounted". Economy class tickets are known to be typically deeply discounted although they are also sold at published fares. Question - when people know that others travel on deeply discounted tickets, are they used to/happy to buy them at full price? Question - how often do you pay full fare Economy?
In this case, the seat is not guarantee in higher cabins and also there is an unknown top up amount. will that make it cheaper, may not necessary.
I remember my H class fare in Y is indeed more expensive than E class in Y+ Last December.
Will these people ever buy higher fare class? I don't know. If you ask me personally I will if I want a guarantee seat in the higher cabin for my personal trip.
I believe there are many reasons why people do not directly buy Y+/C/F class - corporate policy is one of them.
Do I really want CX to implements the bidding? No. I prefer they give more free op ups
May 31, 2014, 12:34 am
#115
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX Marco Polo Club, Virgin Flying Club
Posts: 91
May 31, 2014, 2:15 am
#116
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 2,172
Voila.
Problem solved and everyone happy!
Thank you!
Last edited by IncyWincy; May 31, 2014 at 2:21 am
May 31, 2014, 2:39 am
#118
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 2,172
For Group A, even if the passenger is "forced" to buy a premium ticket in order not to risk bidding and losing a nice seat, his ticket is fully changeable and refundable and there is nothing to stop him or her from buying a lower class ticket (changeable even at a fee or refundable no less) and then bidding on it to see if it works. If it doesn't, then use the revenue premium ticket. This should at least be feasible at shoulder or low seasons. I am in the habit of paying for front cabin and am actually quite excited at this idea. Does CX end up getting more money?
Strictly, you are right.
But there is nothing to stop the passenger from re-instating the ticketed F back into the flight. Note that this involves ticketing the F ticket first and the lower class ticket (both are refundable and changeable anyway so not much lost) so that there are no deadlines for ticketing and if thrown off, they can be re-instated.
In fact, I was specifically talking about slow and shoulder seasons especially (where op-ups will be rare) - so this will be an added bonus for those of us who can choose to buy full fare premium class. Take for instance -
1. Passenger wishes to travel HKG-LHR in F on 1 November.
2. Buy F ticket (refundable, changeable). Issue for a date after 1 November.
3. Buy J ticket (refundable, changeable). See if bidding works. If not, either sit in J (not the end of the world) but if passenger still prefers F, pull the J and put in the F!
In fact, it is not even absolutely to issue the F until the last minute!
This kind of bidding, in this instance, benefits those of us who travel in premium cabins in the sense that it allows us to possibly/likely travel for less and enables us to bid up to a higher cabin when op-ups are unlikely in slow or shoulder seasons.
Hence the questions and answers-
Does this benefit CX in terms of revenue? NO.
Does this benefit CX in terms of corporate image and product exclusivity without which it cannot demand high prices? NO.
Does this benefit passengers only interested in flying the cheapest fares? NO (since they won't bid).
Does this benefit passengers who (or who pay for them) will only fork out for cheap tickets but want to fly in premium cabin for a small increment? YES.
Does this benefit passengers who (or who pay for them) will fork out for premium tickets? YES (in above scenario, plus the fact that when the product is cheapened, the prices go down. Whether the passengers will stay with CX is another matter.)
May 31, 2014, 3:16 am
#119
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1
Travellers on corporate expense accounts will pay for first/business class rickets if they can regardless of the bidding facility.
However, aside from that traveller group, I urge CX to consider the following implications with the rest of your customers who don't belong to that rather exclusive group (and I believe it is quite a majority):
- You are cheapening your brand period.
- You can't build loyalty with transactional businesses. There has to be some room so that a customer will feel they are valued and worth building a relationship with you.
- You are giving a huge slap to DM, GO and SL members if this impacts (a) award ticket redemptions, and (b) op-ups even though it's not a publicly published benefit.
- And if this does impact both, very simply put, you will see two extremes on customer's travel pattern given there's no substantial value in your frequent flyer programme anymore - they might occasionally pay and fly on premium classes with you, but mostly they will simply rather fly with LCCs.
If this bidding facility is happening, I will certainly consider exploring my options and join an alternative frequent flyer programme.
On a side note, we shall also consider petition and support launches of other airlines to base in Hong Kong in this case, if CX is all about nickel and dime and values less on the relationships with us.
However, aside from that traveller group, I urge CX to consider the following implications with the rest of your customers who don't belong to that rather exclusive group (and I believe it is quite a majority):
- You are cheapening your brand period.
- You can't build loyalty with transactional businesses. There has to be some room so that a customer will feel they are valued and worth building a relationship with you.
- You are giving a huge slap to DM, GO and SL members if this impacts (a) award ticket redemptions, and (b) op-ups even though it's not a publicly published benefit.
- And if this does impact both, very simply put, you will see two extremes on customer's travel pattern given there's no substantial value in your frequent flyer programme anymore - they might occasionally pay and fly on premium classes with you, but mostly they will simply rather fly with LCCs.
If this bidding facility is happening, I will certainly consider exploring my options and join an alternative frequent flyer programme.
On a side note, we shall also consider petition and support launches of other airlines to base in Hong Kong in this case, if CX is all about nickel and dime and values less on the relationships with us.
Last edited by HKChan; May 31, 2014 at 3:26 am
May 31, 2014, 6:37 am
#120
Suspended
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HKG
Programs: A3, TK *G; JL JGC; SPG,Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,952
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 6_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10B142 Safari/8536.25)
Lets just say im flying cx less because 1) i make my own decisions n i dont like to pay more for less service - usually travelling time doesnt matter.
2) i can use jl domestic upgrade coupons.
3) i get *g for better status recognition and sometimes better lounges.
4) i get ow recognition i dont HAVE to fly cx.
5) its sometimes the better seat, but flying diagonal is bad for *me*
6) cx service is good, but many hardware (set aside) is falling behind- having flown on jl, bought some pseudo-limited shochu and gifting AND impressing someone, i dont see how im impressed by cx's duty free offerings (lets just say im willing to fly jl again to buy the said item)
Surely im at a minority at some of these, but in general im stating that why cx doesnt hv the edge anymore.
Allowing cash upgrades
Lets just say im flying cx less because 1) i make my own decisions n i dont like to pay more for less service - usually travelling time doesnt matter.
2) i can use jl domestic upgrade coupons.
3) i get *g for better status recognition and sometimes better lounges.
4) i get ow recognition i dont HAVE to fly cx.
5) its sometimes the better seat, but flying diagonal is bad for *me*
6) cx service is good, but many hardware (set aside) is falling behind- having flown on jl, bought some pseudo-limited shochu and gifting AND impressing someone, i dont see how im impressed by cx's duty free offerings (lets just say im willing to fly jl again to buy the said item)
Surely im at a minority at some of these, but in general im stating that why cx doesnt hv the edge anymore.
Allowing cash upgrades