But to be fair, the corporations demanded significantly larger business class seats and even flat beds. Of course the fares have to go up because they can only fit half as many seats in the same space. Basically J is the new F and Y+ is the new J. Remember, 15 years ago or so F was 62" pitch recliners and J was 45" cradle seats.

Luckily our company still flies us in J and having the Y+ must be a good thing.

How about this thinking:
- people who couldn't afford J and fly Y might consider to fly with Y+
- those companies that downgraded their travel policy might consider to put their staff in Y+ instead of Y
- less Y seats


So, Y will be over booked and go to Y+, those booked in Y+ will op-up to J and me sitting in J will get op-up to F:D:D:D

I think I am starting to like the idea of the introduction of Y+ ...BRING IT ON!!!

Unlike ex-LAX/JFK, CX have sold discounted "A" fares for many years ex-SFO to HKG directly on their website that has ranged from $10K-$12K rt (thanks partly to SQ who has been selling FC fares to HKG at about that same $$$ range as well for quite a while). Full "F" fare for SFO to HKG has been more or less the same as a full fare "F" ex-LAX to HKG.

About Y+. As long as they are still going to allow Asia Miles to be redeemed for Y to J upgrade without having to purchase Premium Economy (of course Y+ to J requiring less miles than Y to J), then I won't have any objections with introducing premium Y into the cabin. And I agree that there is no need to eliminate F to accommodate Y+ as BA has showcased their success of 4-class cabins on their 744s & 777s for quite a while.

Yes, you are very right about this. And you said it in one clear way and sound much better than the guy keep saying: Rich guy buy Biz and poor guy go to cattle class ... And he still did not get this after several months on this forum.

My personal preference is, for day time flight I will be happy travel on Y+ but for over night long haul flight I much prefer to travel on J...

And for those people worrying about the FFP points. I think CX will adapt QF's policy on using points upgrading from Y to J. The only focus is, whether they will have bonus miles on Y+ bookings. Since they give 110% of miles on BA/QF Y+. I think it would be the same.

My ideal way for the new Y+ coming with new miles acc policy would be:
(suppose they use WTE to reflect full Y+ class and two level of discounted Y+)

110% Mileage: W T
100% Mileage: E Y B H K
75% Mileage: L M V N
50% Mileage: O Q S (No Club Sector for these class booking codes)

Above is what I personally think is the best for MPC FFP policy combining with CX's point of view and the urge to recognise every revenue class of booking. But I think most MPC Elite members (aka rich people form some FT) would prefer:

110% Mileage: W T E
100% Mileage: Y B H K L M V

Any way one penny for your thought.

Thanks for the interesting post regarding mileage, IC6A. But please do not give Cathay inspiration to downgrade V class mileage earnings. ;)

As for Cathay First, one would think that the Chinese tycoons will fill that in the near future.

Or by me scoring the upgrade from J:p:p

I think you will only see the Chinese Tycoons in F to destinations which Chinese Airlines don't fly direct (from my experience). It is amazing actually to see my local staff selecting to fly MU or Air China to fly to Australia instead of selecting QF? Not that QF is that great, but at least better than the Chinese carriers. I asked them before why and most of them have the highest status with them and want to keep it and also communication is easier (although all of them speak perfect English).

As I said before: CX ......BRING IT ON!!!!!!!

Nah, CX doesn't fly enough intra-China and ex-China ports (HKG is not enough) to inspire Chinese tycoons to fly F with them. They are already the primary source of income for Air China and China Eastern, and I really don't think the Chinese government will allow CX to crash the party, although CX is 29.99% owned by Air China.

But good thought.

Also, I am with you, hopefully CX doesn't adjust their econ mileage structure. V class earning miles is great. W T E (should that be the case) at 110% is good enough.

Also with Y+ I'm hoping CX would allow the seats to recline just a little, or do some adjustment to the seats to solve some of the issues addressed in the other thread.

First of all, I would like to thank IC6A for starting this thread. It is indeed very informative and insightful. And, I have to admit that I quite like your comments thus far as they have been very sensible regarding the reasons why people choose to fly Y+, its price, and mileage accrual-able fare classes though I'd much prefer the latter one (V still earns 100% miles flown).
I would be so happy if/when CX really introduced its Y+. As an entrepreneur, I would rather keep my expenses as low as possible whilst not letting me being tortured that much in Y. Obviously, Y+ is an answer. I don't care if I'm going to score an op-up albeit my op-up success rate has been decent; I believe in sitting in a class I pay for. CX services have satisfied me already regardless of classes I sit in. Having a hardware beyond Y-especially with a crappy Y seat as it is now- with a little bit higher price, travelling with CX would be even more enjoyable. I would like to second sl00001 with BRING IT ON ;)
Ps. I also agree with this

Assuming you're referring to me here. I think you misunderstand why sometimes people pay a lot for the highest fares, so an explanation is in order.

It's not because we say "hey, our firm (or we) have money, please take it!" I rarely fly for fun...I do it because it's my job. I sometimes fly CX to JFK on a few days' notice or shorter. Or somewhere else. I remember back in late 2007 (I had just joined MPC a few months earlier) I was counting the days to getting DM so I could snag the J seat guarantee, because J and F were frequently filled up on 830 and 840 - sometimes weeks in advance.

I don't exactly enjoy all the flying and jet lag, but deeply appreciate the fact that my firm will pay for J (or F) to get me there. I happen to know how much the flight costs, which at one point was high in dollars (although not as a % of the revenue coming in) but there was nothing we could do about it. We do everything we can to keep the costs down, but within reason. If it means skipping meetings, flying on different days, etc., that's just not something we can do - we will lose revenue. Period. We cannot say to a client "hey, even though you want to get this done tomorrow, we actually need to meet on Friday because we found a better fare that day." These meetings are the lifeblood of the role I fill in the industry that I'm in. Furthermore, I often need full-fare because I can end up changing (or cancelling) my whole itinerary multiple times in the 24 hours before the flight. I'm fully aware it would've been cheaper to fly an AONE3 than do the round-trip J to JFK. And I would've preferred the AONE3. I could've visited friends in LHR...maybe stopped by Zurich...then leisurely enjoyed F in the front from JFK back to HKG. But I didn't have that kind of time, instead that $14k ticket was part of a two-day round-trip to NY, getting back 12 hours late to HKG just in time for a day full of meetings in Hong Kong that culminated in a last-minute night flight to Sydney for more meetings. If I recall correctly I think I had to go back to HKG and then on to LAX a few days after that. So there was no way I could do the AONE3 or change dates/flights! And buying a restricted discount ticket would've been an absolute disaster. Hence full-fare J it was on a number of occasions.

I'm aware many people have the flexibility to purchase their fares early, which I try to do whenever I can. I go out of my way to buy cheap J tix when flying personally and for work (when things are a little more set in stone) and often will buy them months in advance. But that's not always the case, especially when it comes to business. Hence why I think it is quite a ridiculous assertion to claim that those of us who are in my position just frivolously throw away money on high fares because we can.

Back to thread
 

Now that CX is thinking about Y+, what are your wishes for Y+?

1) 50-75% more than "average" price Y? Say using K-fare for a benchmark?

2) Wide seat is a given, would you like it to be different than the current Y-seat, i.e. with reclining feature, better cushions, better back support, etc?

3) Better food and drink selections?

4) More personal service?

5) "Free" water bottles?

6) Generous mileage/sector accumulations: 110%, 1.1 sector or more?

7) Anything else you can think of?

what would you like most about Y+?

- Lounge access
- business class amenities
- priority boarding over Y
- priority baggage over Y

So when is Business class a good value on that basis?

You get 30% more space, a 35% premium is quite reasonable. On EVA the premium is pretty small. On BA however, the premium is basically 100% over cheapest Y. They can still sell these tickets, I guess to business travellers and upgraders (because discounted Y+ is upgradeable, but discounted Y is not, and because the miles required Y+->J is less).

I would have to disagree with you there. Though Y+ is "premium", it isn't that premium to an extent of the above (basically J perks and would devaluate the value of J). I guess just priority boarding (like CX GR) would be ok.

JL, NH, AF all have lounge access to Y+ passengers and have some sort of amenities kit that's not available in Y. You got to give passengers more than just a slightly larger seat to justify the 30-35% premium charged.