Just received one email from Cx about new product. It looks like CX is trying to evaluate the possibility of long haul Y+ product. Here is the email:

Dear Mr IC6A

With your help, we can serve you even better

At Cathay Pacific, we care about what you think – and we listen. That's why we would appreciate it if you would tell us more about a new product offering that Cathay Pacific is evaluating by taking our online survey conducted by our research partner Synovate. The survey should take about 20 minutes – and, as a token of our appreciation, every 1,000th respondent will receive 5,000 Bonus Asia Miles!

Thank you for taking the time to give us your thoughts and insights. It will help Cathay Pacific serve you better – and we look forward to welcoming you on board again soon.

The survey will end on 21 January 2010. Start the survey now!

Yours sincerely,

Cathay Pacific Airways Limited


The picture is here:




Basicly that they would like to put 28-32 Y+seats and the seat will feature 38Inches seat pitch. The drawback I reckon is the PTV is like the Exit seat thus you can not watch flight path during taking off and landing. They want to know how much you would like to pay for the Y+ seat. For typical LHR-HKG I choose around 780-860 pounds...Enjoy!

I can not wait for them to put it out ASAP.

Yes, I got that mail also.
I picked YYZ as my destination. Looks like CX is considering how much they should charge. From the survey I estimate to be around 70% more or double of Y.

You mean discounted Y, right?

Cathay use 580 pounds as the Y figure. My estimate of 780-860 is 35%-50% more based on the 568-580 figure. They use 1080 as the yardstick on VS, BA, TG and QF, which is to around 86% of the premiun based on their estimate.

However I get 10% on BA, the normal discounted Y+ product on BA is something around 840 for me. Then AF has the Y+ to Hong Kong from London via Paris for 758 at this moment. So I could not agree on anything above 840, which is what I get from BA currently.

The survey asked how much am I willing to pay for a peak season Y+ ticket from HKG-YYZ, I entered HKD$20K.
Next question asked which I would choose if the fares were...
1- Y @ HKD$10xxx
2- Y+ @ HKD$20xxx
I picked (1)

Then it asked what if the fares were.... which would I choose
1- Y @ HKD$10xxx
2- Y+ @ HKD$18xxx
I picked (2)

.... and so on.

Did they mention seat width? or they are doing the UA style Y+?

Good to know about this! Surely another opportunity for free upgrades for Elite MPC members, just like UA where all elites basically get the Economy Plus seats on every flight even if paying regular Economy fares

19.5 Inches as the width which is 2 inches more than normal Y seat. I attached the link to the picture you can have a look.

Not sure about this. But I guess for Silver/Gold booked into Y, the chance to upgrade to Y+ is great. But if you want to be upgraded to business class you have to book Y+ fare at start. And i wuould doubt the upgrade will come as automatic. However I agree with you that the chance for op-up to Y+ would be much more than current op-up to business.

Thanks for sharing. But frankly i would consider the price you put in is too high. I would not put more than HKD$14800 for the return. The Y discount fare is normally at HKD$8800. For peak season my estimate would be HKD$16800 and no more. You could get a business class return on CI in the price you put in. Any way personal oponion only. Thank you again for sharing.

i wonder if they are set on the Qantas stlye seet...as I recall that is the Y+ they are showing in the picture...now if only they fix J at the same time....

That picture is one of the Qantas promotional pictures of Premium Economy.

Finally, the day has come, when the bean counters realized it's much easier to op-up Y to Y+ (and "save money") rather than op-up Y to J, and no I really doubt Y can be upgrade to J once this happens, and you need to be Y+ to be upgraded to J.

It goes to show that they think the good old days of corporations and bankers flying F and J are over, and now most corporations are stingy and will only allow their people to fly Y (or Y+) but you got to be the big guy to fly J.

I would imagine they will toy with the 777-ER Y-seat configuration from 3-3-3 to 2-3-2 and call that "Y+", so seat a little bigger, a little bit better food and drink selection, and that's it. EVA airline did this crap as well and from what I have heard their Y+ demand is decent enough for them to favor it over J.

Makes sense all in all, even with the heavy overbooked flights you op-up at most 15-20 people, and usually you only op-up 3-6 people on marginal overbooked flights. Also, there are many in this world that would pay $500-$1000 USD more to feel "Premium" and recognizing they will never be able to afford the J prices.

It benefits the Y buyers and MPC GR and SL people. For MPC DM and GO that gets decent amount of op-ups to J this is not good news.

EVA also flies 777-ER and here is their comparison: (by seatguru.com)

EVA Y, 3-3-3, pitch 33, width 17
CX Y, 3-3-3, pitch 32, width 17.5

EVA Y+, 2-4-2, pitch 38, width 18

Estimate CX Y+, 2-4-2, pitch 36-38, width 18

CX had indication that their Y+ would have a pitch of 38 inches and width 19.5 Inches. Nevertheless, CX has a seat width of 18 inches on A330 and 18.5 Inches on B777 in Economy class. And if you really want to compare:

Air New Zeland: P38 or 40 W18 or18.5
KLM: P35 W18
Air France: P38.5 W19
ANA: P38 W18
BMI: P49 W20.5
BA: P38 W18.5
JAL: P37.5 W19
QANTAS: P38(A380 can reach 42) W19.5
UA: P34.5 or 35.5 W17 or 17,5
VS: P38 W21

Oh dear. Another nail in the coffin of First Class

It is nothing to do with 'feel premium' but rather being feel valued. People buy Y+ general tend to be the group of people like to shopping around for value.

Y+ is a product fill the gap of top Leisure market and lower Business market. It has nothing to do if they are rich or not, but about what is their value about travel. Not every traveller choose Y+ because of the potential upgrade, undoubtly some FTs would choose Y+ for the potential of upgrade, when they are travel for leisure.

Frankly speaking, this product does not benefit anybody rather than make the Long Haul journey a little bit more enjoyable. You will have a serious attitude problem if you are flying for benefits.

For many GR and SL members (not green nor silver people please!), life still go on like usual. If you are upgraded, it is your luck.

The concept of the Y+ is to give more travel options to all members, all travellers and being more competitive in the market. You have to notice in London-Hong Kong route, all CX's competitors BA, QF and VS all have Y+ product. Now KLM, AF, ANA and even EVA as you mentioned have Y+ as well for transit passenger. It is wise for CX to take this step.

By the way, Emirates can put 3-4-3 in B777 economy class. I am sure CX can find the space to put 4 rows of Y+ in. I guess on B777, the business class seats will be reduced to put the Y+. On A330 and A340, some Y seats will be removed with the option of remove one Business class row. And on B747, the first 5 rows of Y seats might be changed to Y+.