It they really add Y+, they should opup Gold/Diamond member in Y for free to Y+ if it is not full. This is what ANA has been doing for their Plat(equivalent as MPO GO)/Diamond member. :D

More incentive for silver member to get gold.

Removal of F may happen if the economy slides again (due to companies preferring cheaper tickets), look at QF, they've removed F on some routes while CO merged First and Biz quite a long time ago.

I'm quite interested to know what the paper boarding pass will look like after Y+ is introduced (if they still have paper by that time).:D

CX might remove F class on some 77A planes, if they install Y+ seats. They did this on their A340s in the past with some having only Y & J seating.

There should be enough routes with very low F demand for this modification, correct?

Ahhh... the good old days are gone, I always though CX and SQ would not give in and preserve the F-J-Y configuration, but I guess the economy really did them in and not enough rich people are flying to justify the F seats.

Personally even if I'm a millionaire why would I want to fly F? J is more than enough to have a comfy long fly. Spending $10K more for bigger space and nicer meal (and I guess more friendly and attentive service) is not worth anything. I can see spending $4-5K for J, not but $15-20K for F.

I'm a CX DM and if I travel to London at my own expense, I always switch to BA Y+ if I can get it at a reasonable price (e.g. HK$11k versus HK$7-8k for Y). I get more space and it's a separate cabin, so it usually means no howling babies and misbehaving kids, and no queue for toilets.

I also always check for upgrades to J as they are worth it at 30,000 miles but have never been successful :(.

It's the additional seat room and quiet cabin that make it worthwhile for me, not the other perks. But I refuse to pay HK$14k (for example) and when that happens I switch to CX in Y.

Yes. Only the Middle Eastern airlines make serious money on F. For most others, it's J that brings in the profits - margins are lower than F but volume more than makes up for it. Usually very high business traffic routes e.g. between financial centres will have F because of CEO's and investment banker bosses e.g. HKG/LHR and HKG/JFK. But holiday/student/family routes stand a fair chance of having one or more flights without F e.g. HK/Toronto.

Personally I think many MPC members need to change their mentality. The world is changing. You fly for your comfort not your eco. Airline is transportation company not hotel nor charity. If you want J seat and service, pay for it. I will be very happt to have Y+ and pay for it on my leisure trips. It is great idea. If you fly with CX and the only reason is waiting to be upgraded to J? Ohhhh I pay my sympathy to MPC service centre members and check-in agents. ;)

Sorry if it was already discussed but where would this fit in terms of Club Miles and Sectors? The same 100% and 1.0 as economy or possibly some sort of 110-115% and 1.1 - 1.15 solution? ;)

Anyway, I am likely to use the new cabin class often it it really will be introduced. And it would be another reason to use CX on longhauls.

No-one has spelled the end for CX F. BA has used a four cabin configuration successfully for quite some time now.

And as for F, I am one who completely disagrees with your sentiment....it is a great improvement over J. I sleep better regardless, lights go out earlier and turn on later, far less ambient noise due to less pax, more attentive service, in all it's a better experience. And often the fare differences aren't close to what you highlight. In your example, F is as high as 4-5x more pricey than J. This is (in my experience) a grossly exaggerated price difference. For instance, two years back (2007 heyday) we once paid just under US$14k for a J round-trip HKG-JFK. At the same time, F was going for about $20-21k. For SFO, I recall J prices between $7k and $10k USD. F was in the $15k-$18k price range.

I admit that given today's pricing, things are out of whack. You can see some very odd pricing discrepancies (great J deals, while F hasn't fallen as much). But by and large this is CX's fault by configuring planes with an absurd amount of J (not F) seating, and when finance/exports collapsed, HK - whose economy is heavily focused on these two sectors - felt the pain. Many people just stopped traveling all together. J was indeed a huge volume business and when you cram 50-60 (whatever it is) J seats on a 77A, and then fly it along daily to YYZ how can you actually expect to sell that consistently today at $7-8k USD? Or imagine flying two of those daily to JFK (along with a 74A) in early 2008, when many financial companies/corporates put a complete ban on travel? The 5 empty seats in F are but a minor problem compared to the 40 empty J seats (or op-ups due to grossly discounted Y) in back.

So to me, this is a lot less about spelling the end of F. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I do think calls by many that the group of affluent who can afford it will be "done" or "over" are flat wrong (however, it needs to be route specific. Like someone posted before, it makes sense to expect some F demand to places like JFK, LHR, Dubai, SFO, etc. But many other CX destinations, I'm not sure if the consistent, daily demand is there. Which obviously can throw a monkey wrench into scheduling). But that's not the issue at hand.

Most importantly, J and Y seating are now worlds apart. Y is a crappy seat, as it always has been. J is usually a great bed. Is there not any room for compromise in the middle? That's what Y+ offers. Combine this fact with CX seating already containing FAR too much J, as well as having pax who are now more price-sensitive, and I think you have a fine recipe for Y+. It really can't hurt to try, and as BAs has shown it can function with four classes.

And the men in white coats didn't take you away? (When you could have got a 16 segment OWE in First for about $10K.) :D

Two years ago, that was not very crazy. It was not easy getting on one's desired flights on AONE3 or DONE3. Besides, it will be a longer round trip if on AONE3/DONE3.

You have completely missed the point of this thread, every regular here knows CX is stingy on op-ups, we talk about it because it's interesting to talk about.

If we want op-ups we will go to other airlines that give away op-ups like supermarket coupons.

He sounded like a super rich guy and didn't care, kudos to him.

Seriously, $14K for a J? My TA quoted me a CX J ticket at $10K during the heyday of 2007 summer and I thought that was ridiculous. I usually pay around $4-7K for CX J anytime, and yes before economic meltdown.

I guess that's why there's the price differentials, there are those that are so rich that they don't really care how much they give.

While I do fly a number of CX segments each year I have a slightly different perspective being in the AA program.

H class fares on CX (except perhaps ex USA) are not inexpensive. And even the AA codes shares (connecting in NRT) while less expensive - I would not consider them cheap. Compare them with 2000 mile trips in the USA or Australia to get an idea of what I refer to.

I will attempt to fly in Y+ on QF if they price the fare reasonably. Last year in an attempt to find a flight that earned reasonable AA miles exHKG, I ended up selecting the QF sale fare to MEL/SYD in Y+ because it was roughly 3000 HKD more than a corresponding Y (H/K) fare. And my guess on the final flight loadings were correct as (even with the traditionally more stingy on opups QF) I got a Biz upgrade.

So If CX opens up Y+ ex SEAsia at reasonable prices I will certainly reconsider my flights to the USA, which now are routing through NRT to find AA metal. And both Mrs WF and I are old enough to want to avoid 10+ hour flights in Y seats. Y+ spacing is at least enough to avoid claustrophobia at meal times.

Semi-related topic - Please please ORD/DFW-HKG soon sooner

Still wandering

FRed

By the way I think that the syndrome of Corporations not paying for J/F is of the airlines own making. They've now priced J & F fares so high in the belief that companies will still pay for them, but they are at a level that even companies won't pay them anymore.

Adding Y+ is a last attempt by airlines to try and grab whatever is left of the premium pie.