Where's the F in F class?
Aug 11, 2008, 9:25 pm
#1
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: uk
Programs: BMI, VS, Marriott, SPG, HH*S, GoldPoints+
Posts: 616
Where's the F in F class?
Scene of Crime : Concorde Lounge, Terminal 4, LHR
Client enquires regarding availability of Elementic Treatments, time 8.20pm
The desk lady's response: " no idea, you'll have to walk down and check yourself".
Client: Are you able to phone down for me?
The desk lady: No ( clearly too much trouble )
Client and bag walks down to lower ground floor, attendant :
" Sorry they should have told you that we start clearing up around now, the official close is 8.30 pm but they should have told you that up at the desk".
I have succeeded in a pre flight massage once in four years with BA. Not for want of trying. I generally get the impression that everything's a little too much trouble.
?First? Class Dining Experience
Wandered over to a set apart dining emporium, with 'a voucher' in hand, ( why was that necessary? ), got to sit in such a cosy spot that I could not fail but overhear every word of the dull conversation next door on ones side, and could easily have joined the other side in a joint novel reading session, we were that close.
As for the usual niceties - trying the wine, ( some chance! ) bread rolls, ( had to ask for those with the soup ),
Well let's just say, more akin to an IKEA cafeteria experience.
The Walk of Shame
I was very surprised at a 10 minutes + walk to the gate, it felt like it would never end, down a gloomily lit corridor without the benefit of walk assists. I know, I know, I am fit and healthy so don't really need it but . . I realise that there is a lot of work going on, its just that this added a contributory negative.
No channel for special boarding business or F class.
Front seat in first, usually a thrill on most serious airlines.
This time no chaperone, no newspaper offered, no coat hanger offered, entertainment an ancient grubby looking TV monitor, would have looked more at home in a charter to Torremolinos, miaowww. Films by cartridge - that seems a little old fashioned to me.
Tiny bathrooms,
Cabin temperature too high - lowered on request ( and to be fair I find this to be a fault with all airlines )
If I was going to be picky I would add to the story my bemusement at the 500 yards cattle run to reach bag check in - why do they do that when there's only 3 people in the line ? ) and the absence of any first class greeter or speciall first class facility.
I don't like whinge on, but for those folks who pay top money for this, it pales in comparison with the competition. BA lowers the bar every time I travel with them.
Can't wait to get back to SQ, TG, ML, any*other.
Client enquires regarding availability of Elementic Treatments, time 8.20pm
The desk lady's response: " no idea, you'll have to walk down and check yourself".
Client: Are you able to phone down for me?
The desk lady: No ( clearly too much trouble )
Client and bag walks down to lower ground floor, attendant :
" Sorry they should have told you that we start clearing up around now, the official close is 8.30 pm but they should have told you that up at the desk".
I have succeeded in a pre flight massage once in four years with BA. Not for want of trying. I generally get the impression that everything's a little too much trouble.
?First? Class Dining Experience
Wandered over to a set apart dining emporium, with 'a voucher' in hand, ( why was that necessary? ), got to sit in such a cosy spot that I could not fail but overhear every word of the dull conversation next door on ones side, and could easily have joined the other side in a joint novel reading session, we were that close.
As for the usual niceties - trying the wine, ( some chance! ) bread rolls, ( had to ask for those with the soup ),
Well let's just say, more akin to an IKEA cafeteria experience.
The Walk of Shame
I was very surprised at a 10 minutes + walk to the gate, it felt like it would never end, down a gloomily lit corridor without the benefit of walk assists. I know, I know, I am fit and healthy so don't really need it but . . I realise that there is a lot of work going on, its just that this added a contributory negative.
No channel for special boarding business or F class.
Front seat in first, usually a thrill on most serious airlines.
This time no chaperone, no newspaper offered, no coat hanger offered, entertainment an ancient grubby looking TV monitor, would have looked more at home in a charter to Torremolinos, miaowww. Films by cartridge - that seems a little old fashioned to me.
Tiny bathrooms,
Cabin temperature too high - lowered on request ( and to be fair I find this to be a fault with all airlines )
If I was going to be picky I would add to the story my bemusement at the 500 yards cattle run to reach bag check in - why do they do that when there's only 3 people in the line ? ) and the absence of any first class greeter or speciall first class facility.
I don't like whinge on, but for those folks who pay top money for this, it pales in comparison with the competition. BA lowers the bar every time I travel with them.
Can't wait to get back to SQ, TG, ML, any*other.
Aug 11, 2008, 9:55 pm
#2
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: AAdvantage EXP
Posts: 1,482
Wow - my experience in F was completely different. Fantastic staff, good food, special boarding etc. With the exception of IFE possibly the best F experience I have had across AA/BA/QF/CX (except for the lack of caviar).
Aug 12, 2008, 12:40 am
#3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 570
The Walk of Shame
I was very surprised at a 10 minutes + walk to the gate, it felt like it would never end, down a gloomily lit corridor without the benefit of walk assists. I know, I know, I am fit and healthy so don't really need it but . . I realise that there is a lot of work going on, its just that this added a contributory negative.
No channel for special boarding business or F class.
Front seat in first, usually a thrill on most serious airlines.
This time no chaperone, no newspaper offered, no coat hanger offered, entertainment an ancient grubby looking TV monitor, would have looked more at home in a charter to Torremolinos, miaowww. Films by cartridge - that seems a little old fashioned to me.
Tiny bathrooms,
Cabin temperature too high - lowered on request ( and to be fair I find this to be a fault with all airlines )
If I was going to be picky I would add to the story my bemusement at the 500 yards cattle run to reach bag check in - why do they do that when there's only 3 people in the line ? ) and the absence of any first class greeter or speciall first class facility.
I don't like whinge on, but for those folks who pay top money for this, it pales in comparison with the competition. BA lowers the bar every time I travel with them.
Can't wait to get back to SQ, TG, ML, any*other.
On board wasnt much better. A member of crew actually asked me if I minded waiting whilst she finished doing her make up in the F toilets.
Service was disinterested and rushed and nowhere near the standards of SQ or TG in F ( my most recent comparisons) Food average, and certainly far inferior to an OS J flight I have just taken .
In my view it is the inconsistency in the product that lets BA down.Would avoid in future.
Aug 12, 2008, 2:41 am
#4
Fontaine d'honneur du Flyertalk
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Morbihan, France
Programs: Reine des Muccis de Pucci; Foreign Elitist (according to others)
Posts: 19,254
Front seat in first, usually a thrill on most serious airlines.
This time no chaperone, no newspaper offered, no coat hanger offered, entertainment an ancient grubby looking TV monitor, would have looked more at home in a charter to Torremolinos, miaowww. Films by cartridge - that seems a little old fashioned to me.
Tiny bathrooms,
Cabin temperature too high - lowered on request ( and to be fair I find this to be a fault with all airlines )
This time no chaperone, no newspaper offered, no coat hanger offered, entertainment an ancient grubby looking TV monitor, would have looked more at home in a charter to Torremolinos, miaowww. Films by cartridge - that seems a little old fashioned to me.
Tiny bathrooms,
Cabin temperature too high - lowered on request ( and to be fair I find this to be a fault with all airlines )
Aug 12, 2008, 5:25 am
#5
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London, England
Programs: OW Emerald (BA), UA*G, Marriott Plat, IC RA, Various others
Posts: 1,009
I think the OP has some very, very valid points. BA are slipping in the First Class stakes, which is a shame. There is willing amongst the staff to provide top levels of service, it is the tools they are given which can let the side down.
All the perks one used to have for First, from priority baggage and boarding to higher quality food seem to have evaporated in the name of cost cutting. Service in the CCR is mediocre at best, using untrained lounge staff in a setting which I find fantastic - private booths, but so private, the staff don't know you are there! Service to me is best when your needs are anticipated before you even know you need something - so a bread basket when soup is ordered should be a given, not a request item. It is all down to lounge training - and that seems to be lacking at the moment, which is a shame. On board, the service is generally good (no doubt fabulous if on one of Miss Pucci's flights, but when you ask what the shepherd's pie is like, and the crew reply "revolting", or you're told there is only one portion of cheese loaded per pax when you want more (ref CCaley), then you just get a below First Class feeling in your gut. And you certainly have not paid a below First Class fare.
I remember moons ago being escorted on the BA179 (evening departure) from the First Class lounge at T4 down to the gate - they made a call, and a lovely lady escorted all First passengers to the gate. When we arrived, it was in full boarding process, but we were escorted right through, down the jetway and right on board. That is First Class. When we got to JFK, having been lavishly fed and watered across the Atlantic, our bags were the first on the carousel. Sadly that doesn't appear to be the case anymore on BA, but that does not stop their competition from providing it. Qantas has a First Class concierge that meets every long-haul flight, to ensure that pax are provided with a complete experience. They even monintor the baggage belt to be sure F bags are off first, and bid farewell to F pax. What a nice touch. Leaves the passengers happy and willing to fly again, paying the premium.
All the perks one used to have for First, from priority baggage and boarding to higher quality food seem to have evaporated in the name of cost cutting. Service in the CCR is mediocre at best, using untrained lounge staff in a setting which I find fantastic - private booths, but so private, the staff don't know you are there! Service to me is best when your needs are anticipated before you even know you need something - so a bread basket when soup is ordered should be a given, not a request item. It is all down to lounge training - and that seems to be lacking at the moment, which is a shame. On board, the service is generally good (no doubt fabulous if on one of Miss Pucci's flights, but when you ask what the shepherd's pie is like, and the crew reply "revolting", or you're told there is only one portion of cheese loaded per pax when you want more (ref CCaley), then you just get a below First Class feeling in your gut. And you certainly have not paid a below First Class fare.
I remember moons ago being escorted on the BA179 (evening departure) from the First Class lounge at T4 down to the gate - they made a call, and a lovely lady escorted all First passengers to the gate. When we arrived, it was in full boarding process, but we were escorted right through, down the jetway and right on board. That is First Class. When we got to JFK, having been lavishly fed and watered across the Atlantic, our bags were the first on the carousel. Sadly that doesn't appear to be the case anymore on BA, but that does not stop their competition from providing it. Qantas has a First Class concierge that meets every long-haul flight, to ensure that pax are provided with a complete experience. They even monintor the baggage belt to be sure F bags are off first, and bid farewell to F pax. What a nice touch. Leaves the passengers happy and willing to fly again, paying the premium.
Aug 12, 2008, 6:44 am
#6
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, ARN, HEL, ..... or MAN
Programs: BA GGL / GFL, Mucci Diamond!, HH Diamond, Radisson Premium, IHG Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 5,970
I'll be taking my first T5 F flight in just over a week and am really looking forward to the whole T5 experience. However I have relatively recently returned from an LHR-HKG round trip in VS UC and this thread has provided an excellent opportunity to compare recent experiences. We should be really comparing the UC experience with CW to compare like-with-like but actually it shows how far F can slip on a bad day..
I booked a haircut and massage a few days in advance at the cowshed. To be fair the haircut wasn't great but at least I had both treatments when I wanted them.
Everyone who has been in the VS clubhouse at LHR will know how good the drinks and food service is - there is no comparison (and no need for a voucher! If you're in the lounge, you're entitled to eat!) Yes the tables are quite close together but no more so than in a restaurant.
Ground experience better but not great at LHR, especially now the premium checkin area is open but separate channels for BP check and boarding at HKG.
I wasn't shown to my seat from the door but there are so many flight attendants in the cabin that the hanger and newspaper were both offered almost immediately along with glass of fizz.
Bathrooms smaller than ideal and 3 between 45 probably not quite enough - especially when 45 people trying to change into PJs! Never too hot though.
My bag was taken from the car for me and my boarding pass given to me before I even left the back seat of the car.
It's not a whinge - we can't always expect BA's First product to be as good as all other airlines' First products, but it should be reasonable to expect it to be as good as the business class product from it's biggest UK-based competitor.
I am very much looking forward to the CCR in T5 as a new experience but am very disappointed that the opportunity hasn't been grasped to improve the rest of the ground service at LHR for First passengers, such as accompanied boarding, quality dining (served by staff in BA uniform, not subcontracted), assistance in the terminal before checkin etc. I know the onboard hard product is likely to be updated next year and I am sure we're all looking forward to that but the holistic approach appears to be missing to provide that special, seamless end-to-end experience. With VS business class, the service starts and ends at your front door. It shouldn't be too much to expect something similar from First Class in a brand new terminal!! Will post my experiences in a couple of weeks' time.
Scene of Crime : Concorde Lounge, Terminal 4, LHR
Client enquires regarding availability of Elementic Treatments, time 8.20pm
The desk lady's response: " no idea, you'll have to walk down and check yourself".
Client: Are you able to phone down for me?
The desk lady: No ( clearly too much trouble )
Client and bag walks down to lower ground floor, attendant :
" Sorry they should have told you that we start clearing up around now, the official close is 8.30 pm but they should have told you that up at the desk".
I have succeeded in a pre flight massage once in four years with BA. Not for want of trying. I generally get the impression that everything's a little too much trouble.
Client enquires regarding availability of Elementic Treatments, time 8.20pm
The desk lady's response: " no idea, you'll have to walk down and check yourself".
Client: Are you able to phone down for me?
The desk lady: No ( clearly too much trouble )
Client and bag walks down to lower ground floor, attendant :
" Sorry they should have told you that we start clearing up around now, the official close is 8.30 pm but they should have told you that up at the desk".
I have succeeded in a pre flight massage once in four years with BA. Not for want of trying. I generally get the impression that everything's a little too much trouble.
?First? Class Dining Experience
Wandered over to a set apart dining emporium, with 'a voucher' in hand, ( why was that necessary? ), got to sit in such a cosy spot that I could not fail but overhear every word of the dull conversation next door on ones side, and could easily have joined the other side in a joint novel reading session, we were that close.
As for the usual niceties - trying the wine, ( some chance! ) bread rolls, ( had to ask for those with the soup ),
Well let's just say, more akin to an IKEA cafeteria experience.
Wandered over to a set apart dining emporium, with 'a voucher' in hand, ( why was that necessary? ), got to sit in such a cosy spot that I could not fail but overhear every word of the dull conversation next door on ones side, and could easily have joined the other side in a joint novel reading session, we were that close.
As for the usual niceties - trying the wine, ( some chance! ) bread rolls, ( had to ask for those with the soup ),
Well let's just say, more akin to an IKEA cafeteria experience.
The Walk of Shame
I was very surprised at a 10 minutes + walk to the gate, it felt like it would never end, down a gloomily lit corridor without the benefit of walk assists. I know, I know, I am fit and healthy so don't really need it but . . I realise that there is a lot of work going on, its just that this added a contributory negative.
No channel for special boarding business or F class.
I was very surprised at a 10 minutes + walk to the gate, it felt like it would never end, down a gloomily lit corridor without the benefit of walk assists. I know, I know, I am fit and healthy so don't really need it but . . I realise that there is a lot of work going on, its just that this added a contributory negative.
No channel for special boarding business or F class.
Front seat in first, usually a thrill on most serious airlines.
This time no chaperone, no newspaper offered, no coat hanger offered, entertainment an ancient grubby looking TV monitor, would have looked more at home in a charter to Torremolinos, miaowww. Films by cartridge - that seems a little old fashioned to me.
This time no chaperone, no newspaper offered, no coat hanger offered, entertainment an ancient grubby looking TV monitor, would have looked more at home in a charter to Torremolinos, miaowww. Films by cartridge - that seems a little old fashioned to me.
I am very much looking forward to the CCR in T5 as a new experience but am very disappointed that the opportunity hasn't been grasped to improve the rest of the ground service at LHR for First passengers, such as accompanied boarding, quality dining (served by staff in BA uniform, not subcontracted), assistance in the terminal before checkin etc. I know the onboard hard product is likely to be updated next year and I am sure we're all looking forward to that but the holistic approach appears to be missing to provide that special, seamless end-to-end experience. With VS business class, the service starts and ends at your front door. It shouldn't be too much to expect something similar from First Class in a brand new terminal!! Will post my experiences in a couple of weeks' time.
Aug 12, 2008, 7:14 am
#7
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London WC2/W1
Programs: BAEC Silver; Muccis du Monde des Peluches
Posts: 6,627
We also found the dining area claustrophobic and wanted to leave it almost as soon as we had sat down. Whereas most of the CCR feels spacious and airy with a few other passengers and some interesting decor to look at, the small booths of the dining area felt like the enclosed boxes of certain examination centres where you are deliberately isolated and cannot see anyone or anything of interest. I would recommend that you ask for your food (which isn't that good anyway) to be brought to you at the bar, or on the (indoor) Terrace which looks out over the rest of the terminal.
Last edited by LeisureFirst; Aug 12, 2008 at 7:26 am
Aug 12, 2008, 7:23 am
#8
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Phuket
Programs: SQ *Gold, BA, QR, EY, Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum, Marriott Gold, Amex Platinum
Posts: 5,289
I think the OP has some very, very valid points. BA are slipping in the First Class stakes, which is a shame. There is willing amongst the staff to provide top levels of service, it is the tools they are given which can let the side down.
All the perks one used to have for First, from priority baggage and boarding to higher quality food seem to have evaporated in the name of cost cutting. Service in the CCR is mediocre at best, using untrained lounge staff in a setting which I find fantastic - private booths, but so private, the staff don't know you are there! Service to me is best when your needs are anticipated before you even know you need something - so a bread basket when soup is ordered should be a given, not a request item. It is all down to lounge training - and that seems to be lacking at the moment, which is a shame. On board, the service is generally good (no doubt fabulous if on one of Miss Pucci's flights, but when you ask what the shepherd's pie is like, and the crew reply "revolting", or you're told there is only one portion of cheese loaded per pax when you want more (ref CCaley), then you just get a below First Class feeling in your gut. And you certainly have not paid a below First Class fare.
I remember moons ago being escorted on the BA179 (evening departure) from the First Class lounge at T4 down to the gate - they made a call, and a lovely lady escorted all First passengers to the gate. When we arrived, it was in full boarding process, but we were escorted right through, down the jetway and right on board. That is First Class. When we got to JFK, having been lavishly fed and watered across the Atlantic, our bags were the first on the carousel. Sadly that doesn't appear to be the case anymore on BA, but that does not stop their competition from providing it. Qantas has a First Class concierge that meets every long-haul flight, to ensure that pax are provided with a complete experience. They even monintor the baggage belt to be sure F bags are off first, and bid farewell to F pax. What a nice touch. Leaves the passengers happy and willing to fly again, paying the premium.
All the perks one used to have for First, from priority baggage and boarding to higher quality food seem to have evaporated in the name of cost cutting. Service in the CCR is mediocre at best, using untrained lounge staff in a setting which I find fantastic - private booths, but so private, the staff don't know you are there! Service to me is best when your needs are anticipated before you even know you need something - so a bread basket when soup is ordered should be a given, not a request item. It is all down to lounge training - and that seems to be lacking at the moment, which is a shame. On board, the service is generally good (no doubt fabulous if on one of Miss Pucci's flights, but when you ask what the shepherd's pie is like, and the crew reply "revolting", or you're told there is only one portion of cheese loaded per pax when you want more (ref CCaley), then you just get a below First Class feeling in your gut. And you certainly have not paid a below First Class fare.
I remember moons ago being escorted on the BA179 (evening departure) from the First Class lounge at T4 down to the gate - they made a call, and a lovely lady escorted all First passengers to the gate. When we arrived, it was in full boarding process, but we were escorted right through, down the jetway and right on board. That is First Class. When we got to JFK, having been lavishly fed and watered across the Atlantic, our bags were the first on the carousel. Sadly that doesn't appear to be the case anymore on BA, but that does not stop their competition from providing it. Qantas has a First Class concierge that meets every long-haul flight, to ensure that pax are provided with a complete experience. They even monintor the baggage belt to be sure F bags are off first, and bid farewell to F pax. What a nice touch. Leaves the passengers happy and willing to fly again, paying the premium.
Well, I have just completed a trip in F from ORD-ZRH and then to LHR in J and have some updates and some good news! Upon check-in at the F desk at T5 ORD, we were asked if we would like to be escorted thru security and to the Swiss F lounge - we said yes . We were then taken to the front of the passport-check line and attended to straight away . Then through the First/Business x-ray/security line. The agent then took us into the F lounge. Great service! When the flight was ready to board all of the F pax in the lounge were escorted to the gate and priority boarded. Excellent service once again. At ZRH we transited in the F lounge and when ready to board we were escorted through a priority x-ray line and shown to the gate. Why can't all airlines (BA, especially, take note!) treat premium pax this well?!
To top it all off we had absolutely stellar service, especially in F from ORD
Kudos to Swiss!
Cannot wait for our next trip to BKK (Swiss F again) next month!
Aug 12, 2008, 7:43 am
#10
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, ARN, HEL, ..... or MAN
Programs: BA GGL / GFL, Mucci Diamond!, HH Diamond, Radisson Premium, IHG Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 5,970
Well, the lounge itself isn't a bad space but, as AndyFlyer has already indicated, the service is absolutely gormless. Whereas BA premium crews are usually excellent, especially at establishing the appropriate rapport with their passengers, the CCR seems to be stuffed with a lot of grinning under-occupied local school leavers probably paid barely the minimum wage who, although apparently well-intentioned, have little clue about food, drink or service. A good start would be to halve the staff numbers but keep the staff budget the same so as to get in some proper waiters.
We also found the dining area claustrophobic and wanted to leave it almost as soon as we had sat down. Whereas most of the CCR feels spacious and airy with a few other passengers and some interesting decor to look at, the small booths of the dining area felt like the enclosed boxes of certain examination centres where you are deliberately isolated and cannot see anyone or anything of interest. I would recommend that you ask for your food (which isn't that good anyway) to be brought to you at the bar, or on the (indoor) Terrace which looks out over the rest of the terminal.
We also found the dining area claustrophobic and wanted to leave it almost as soon as we had sat down. Whereas most of the CCR feels spacious and airy with a few other passengers and some interesting decor to look at, the small booths of the dining area felt like the enclosed boxes of certain examination centres where you are deliberately isolated and cannot see anyone or anything of interest. I would recommend that you ask for your food (which isn't that good anyway) to be brought to you at the bar, or on the (indoor) Terrace which looks out over the rest of the terminal.
Many thanks for the tips, LeisureFirst and AndyFlyer. That's what I mean by the holistic experience. The CCR is the ideal place for BA to be exceeding its customers' expectations. Yes, it would be good to have a better checkin experience from the sound of some of the posts about T5 but some of the issues can be blamed on / shared with BAA. In the CCR, BA has total control and nobody else to blame (and they only have 2 CCRs to manage across the world!)
Where better to spend just a bit more money so that BA's First passengers are blown away by the service and are telling the world about it (either on these forums or at CEO / CIO / CFO conferences where people do talk and compare - I know, I've heard (and contributed!))
First impressions (no pun intended) do count and a bad first impression can cloud the overall impression, even if the flight itself is faultless.
If someone at Waterworld is listening, sorting this out before Friday 22nd would be very much appreciated
Aug 12, 2008, 7:58 am
#11
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, Sydney
Programs: Muccihood de la Rotisserie Doree, BAEC Gold, SAS Eurobonus basic, Ansett Golden Wing :-(
Posts: 3,114
Aug 12, 2008, 8:01 am
#12
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, ARN, HEL, ..... or MAN
Programs: BA GGL / GFL, Mucci Diamond!, HH Diamond, Radisson Premium, IHG Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 5,970
Aug 12, 2008, 8:16 am
#13
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, Sydney
Programs: Muccihood de la Rotisserie Doree, BAEC Gold, SAS Eurobonus basic, Ansett Golden Wing :-(
Posts: 3,114
Aug 12, 2008, 8:17 am
#14
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London WC2/W1
Programs: BAEC Silver; Muccis du Monde des Peluches
Posts: 6,627
I found myself at a picnic a couple of weeks ago chatting with a group of four friends and it turned out all of us had been in the T5 CCR precisely once. We all came away with the feeling that it is "just a lounge"; but also that if we took it over and got the right staff, it would be a fabulous space for a party.
Aug 12, 2008, 8:20 am
#15
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Cardiff, UK
Programs: BA GGL, Concorde Room card, KLM Silver, PC Platinum Ambassador, Marriott Platinum, UA Premier Silver
Posts: 5,278
