BA losing cultural sensitivity etc regarding Istanbul
Mar 28, 2024, 11:00 am
#16
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Mar 28, 2024, 11:04 am
#17
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Mar 28, 2024, 11:10 am
#18
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Moderator note
Folks, the mods have had a few messages about how ironic it is in a thread about "insensitivity" that we have posts that open with an attack on an OPs posting style and continue with some wildly off-topic ramblings about the semantics of Spanish translations.
Can we return to the OPs topic please ?
Can we return to the OPs topic please ?
Mar 28, 2024, 10:37 pm
#19
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To answer some of the above..............For most of the last 3-4 decades BA never had Turkish recorded messaging until IIRC 6-7 years ago, since the early 90's all BA messaging and announcements had always been solely in English (yes maybe I recall one or two times that they have actually had a Turkish speaking FA that did it in Turkish)..........DaveS.That is because TK does not quote incorrect information!
Pucci, regarding visas, for Uk citizens it was as you stateuntil they switched over to the new airport in 2019. At that time they really pushed the online visa beforehand, but did not make it a requirement. With the new airport, they said that it was online only, but everyone knew that there was a desk at the airport and those that slipped by could buy a visa (although that visa at different times was a bit different.........5 dollars more, or limited to one entry. However after Covid they removed visa requirements for the UK, and then about 4 months ago from US visitors. BA's "verification" system does not seem to reflect this, or only does so hit and miss.
Just to reiterate, my biggest problem about the spoken announcement, other than the announcement itself, was the statement about it being ILLEGAL, and about fines and jail, and then why and how this could happen. Was it some probably progressive person with less sense than knowledge, who decided that this is the case, and slipped it into their Ipads?Was it some sort of Muslim extremist, who slipped it into the Ipad. I mean some one had to go out of their way to do this, as the announcement is normally plain vanilla, "Welcome to Istanbul....The time is...........Please remain seated..............You can now use your phones, etc"
Pucci, regarding visas, for Uk citizens it was as you stateuntil they switched over to the new airport in 2019. At that time they really pushed the online visa beforehand, but did not make it a requirement. With the new airport, they said that it was online only, but everyone knew that there was a desk at the airport and those that slipped by could buy a visa (although that visa at different times was a bit different.........5 dollars more, or limited to one entry. However after Covid they removed visa requirements for the UK, and then about 4 months ago from US visitors. BA's "verification" system does not seem to reflect this, or only does so hit and miss.
Just to reiterate, my biggest problem about the spoken announcement, other than the announcement itself, was the statement about it being ILLEGAL, and about fines and jail, and then why and how this could happen. Was it some probably progressive person with less sense than knowledge, who decided that this is the case, and slipped it into their Ipads?Was it some sort of Muslim extremist, who slipped it into the Ipad. I mean some one had to go out of their way to do this, as the announcement is normally plain vanilla, "Welcome to Istanbul....The time is...........Please remain seated..............You can now use your phones, etc"
Mar 29, 2024, 12:57 am
#20
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I have noticed a bunch of strange things over the last year or so regarding BA flights to Istanbul, and wonder what BA is thinking................
I would say that in one in 4 flights from LHR-IST, the gate agents play the ARABIC boarding instructions, etc, which of course hardly anyone getting on the flight would understand. I and I have also witnessed several Turks also have mentioned this to the gate agents, and the answers range from, "Oh I am terribly sorry, but I pressed the Turkish button" to (believe it or not), "isn't it the same thing", to "are you sure?".
Moving onto going through security, Over the last 2 years Turkey has rescinded the need for visas to a bunch of nationalities (among them UK and US) Yet, most of the time people are sent back for visa checks, even though they are not necessary (and technically never were but were listed as needed by Timatic). It sees that BA IT strikes again.
But the craziest one I experienced the other day when after landing in Istanbul, the Purser made a special announcement that Turkey is a Muslim country and as it is the month of Ramadan it is "ILLEGAL to smoke, vape, eat or drink in public and that passengers could be subject to arrest, fines" etc.
I called her over, and flat out told her that perhaps she has mixed up a Saudi, Omani or whatever message from her IPad. She showed it to me and it was clearly marked as being for Turkey!
Despite what has happened in the last 20 years or so politically, Turkey is still a secular country and one has the right to eat, drink or smoke anywhere at anytime that one wants, and while one might want to point out that it is Ramadan, and one might want to be respectful, and in truth there are certain neighborhoods of Istanbul and certain parts of the country where I would not eat in public during the day, none of these places are places where the average BA passenger is going to go! Worse though is the fact that someone at BA has seemingly decided for whatever reason to spread such information in an official capacity!
I would say that in one in 4 flights from LHR-IST, the gate agents play the ARABIC boarding instructions, etc, which of course hardly anyone getting on the flight would understand. I and I have also witnessed several Turks also have mentioned this to the gate agents, and the answers range from, "Oh I am terribly sorry, but I pressed the Turkish button" to (believe it or not), "isn't it the same thing", to "are you sure?".
Moving onto going through security, Over the last 2 years Turkey has rescinded the need for visas to a bunch of nationalities (among them UK and US) Yet, most of the time people are sent back for visa checks, even though they are not necessary (and technically never were but were listed as needed by Timatic). It sees that BA IT strikes again.
But the craziest one I experienced the other day when after landing in Istanbul, the Purser made a special announcement that Turkey is a Muslim country and as it is the month of Ramadan it is "ILLEGAL to smoke, vape, eat or drink in public and that passengers could be subject to arrest, fines" etc.
I called her over, and flat out told her that perhaps she has mixed up a Saudi, Omani or whatever message from her IPad. She showed it to me and it was clearly marked as being for Turkey!
Despite what has happened in the last 20 years or so politically, Turkey is still a secular country and one has the right to eat, drink or smoke anywhere at anytime that one wants, and while one might want to point out that it is Ramadan, and one might want to be respectful, and in truth there are certain neighborhoods of Istanbul and certain parts of the country where I would not eat in public during the day, none of these places are places where the average BA passenger is going to go! Worse though is the fact that someone at BA has seemingly decided for whatever reason to spread such information in an official capacity!
Either way around, ridiculous OTT political correct announcement PA nonsense that probably causes more offence to both nationalities that if it was just not said.
as my Grandad used to say ear all, see all, Say nowt
Mar 29, 2024, 2:00 am
#21
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I have noticed a bunch of strange things over the last year or so regarding BA flights to Istanbul, and wonder what BA is thinking................
I would say that in one in 4 flights from LHR-IST, the gate agents play the ARABIC boarding instructions, etc, which of course hardly anyone getting on the flight would understand. I and I have also witnessed several Turks also have mentioned this to the gate agents, and the answers range from, "Oh I am terribly sorry, but I pressed the Turkish button" to (believe it or not), "isn't it the same thing", to "are you sure?".
Moving onto going through security, Over the last 2 years Turkey has rescinded the need for visas to a bunch of nationalities (among them UK and US) Yet, most of the time people are sent back for visa checks, even though they are not necessary (and technically never were but were listed as needed by Timatic). It sees that BA IT strikes again.
But the craziest one I experienced the other day when after landing in Istanbul, the Purser made a special announcement that Turkey is a Muslim country and as it is the month of Ramadan it is "ILLEGAL to smoke, vape, eat or drink in public and that passengers could be subject to arrest, fines" etc.
I called her over, and flat out told her that perhaps she has mixed up a Saudi, Omani or whatever message from her IPad. She showed it to me and it was clearly marked as being for Turkey!
Despite what has happened in the last 20 years or so politically, Turkey is still a secular country and one has the right to eat, drink or smoke anywhere at anytime that one wants, and while one might want to point out that it is Ramadan, and one might want to be respectful, and in truth there are certain neighborhoods of Istanbul and certain parts of the country where I would not eat in public during the day, none of these places are places where the average BA passenger is going to go! Worse though is the fact that someone at BA has seemingly decided for whatever reason to spread such information in an official capacity!
I would say that in one in 4 flights from LHR-IST, the gate agents play the ARABIC boarding instructions, etc, which of course hardly anyone getting on the flight would understand. I and I have also witnessed several Turks also have mentioned this to the gate agents, and the answers range from, "Oh I am terribly sorry, but I pressed the Turkish button" to (believe it or not), "isn't it the same thing", to "are you sure?".
Moving onto going through security, Over the last 2 years Turkey has rescinded the need for visas to a bunch of nationalities (among them UK and US) Yet, most of the time people are sent back for visa checks, even though they are not necessary (and technically never were but were listed as needed by Timatic). It sees that BA IT strikes again.
But the craziest one I experienced the other day when after landing in Istanbul, the Purser made a special announcement that Turkey is a Muslim country and as it is the month of Ramadan it is "ILLEGAL to smoke, vape, eat or drink in public and that passengers could be subject to arrest, fines" etc.
I called her over, and flat out told her that perhaps she has mixed up a Saudi, Omani or whatever message from her IPad. She showed it to me and it was clearly marked as being for Turkey!
Despite what has happened in the last 20 years or so politically, Turkey is still a secular country and one has the right to eat, drink or smoke anywhere at anytime that one wants, and while one might want to point out that it is Ramadan, and one might want to be respectful, and in truth there are certain neighborhoods of Istanbul and certain parts of the country where I would not eat in public during the day, none of these places are places where the average BA passenger is going to go! Worse though is the fact that someone at BA has seemingly decided for whatever reason to spread such information in an official capacity!
Mar 29, 2024, 5:06 am
#22
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Moving onto going through security, Over the last 2 years Turkey has rescinded the need for visas to a bunch of nationalities (among them UK and US) Yet, most of the time people are sent back for visa checks, even though they are not necessary (and technically never were but were listed as needed by Timatic). It sees that BA IT strikes again.capacity!
I have never seen this happening on any other non-Turkish carrier such as Lufthansa, Air France, KLM, Aegean, Qatar Airways, etc...
I also recall that the recent CE menus to IST showed the full English breakfast unadapted, which is a recent development. As to whether pork was actually served, I do not know, but the relentless pursuit of standardisation has BA looking very unworldly at the moment.
I remember that during the M&S BoB days, they wouldn't taught about the demographics on that route and load lots of sandwiches with pork and a few of the cheese and mushroom one ( vegetarian option ) so the crew easily ran out of the options at the front rows. This was before pre-ordering and before the menu has been adapted to have a more diverse variety of options. People ended up buying crisps, and chocolates instead.
However, maybe when comparing to pre-COVID, based on my observations, the amount/percentage of Turkish passengers on BA are decreasing on this route.
Gate agents in IST don't bother to make announcements in Turkish for BA flights and they solely do it in English.
Mar 29, 2024, 5:54 am
#23
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As for the HQ or crew not knowing the difference, well this is what happens in general when we employ the cheapest people, rather than the best or most experienced.
Mar 29, 2024, 6:15 am
#24
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On my last LHR-CAI, menu cards were handed out in CE which described the full English breakfast. Crew got to row 3 before realising what they were distributing was in fact non-pork. They made an announcement which pleased the muslims on board but totally pi$$ed off some others. You can’t really win unless you carry both. That’s not in BA’s DNA.
Mar 29, 2024, 6:15 am
#25
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BA should just ignore and not even try to be 'cultural-destination' appropriate, when flying to a particular destination. When BA tries to do the right thing, it is then open to all sorts misinterpretation and complaints. Why then even bother. (Rather similar to another political problem airlines face; particularly with CX. is which Chinese dialect to use first, with cabin announcements ; Mandarin or Cantonese)
Mar 29, 2024, 6:27 am
#26
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ajamieson. This cannot be anything to do with a Turkish government directive, this or any other year. Forgetting past years, this Ramadan alone, meaning since March 9/10, I have flown BA, LH, AF and TK (multiple times) into Istanbul and NONE of these have made any sort of announcement like this. Some weird virtue signalling thing in one direction or another must be happening here. It is not helped by the cat I suppose that BA really has no one at the airport anymore in Istanbul with any experience. They eliminated the entire staff over the years, but had two airport managers that had experience, they are all gone, replaced by a former KLM guy, who I believe is also gone (have not seen him in forever), and everything seemingly is now done by 3rd party contract workers. Meaning that I do not believe that there is anyone left to even feed back to London about such things anymore.
Mar 29, 2024, 6:47 am
#27
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To answer some of the above..............For most of the last 3-4 decades BA never had Turkish recorded messaging until IIRC 6-7 years ago, since the early 90's all BA messaging and announcements had always been solely in English (yes maybe I recall one or two times that they have actually had a Turkish speaking FA that did it in Turkish)..........DaveS.That is because TK does not quote incorrect information!
Pucci, regarding visas, for Uk citizens it was as you stateuntil they switched over to the new airport in 2019. At that time they really pushed the online visa beforehand, but did not make it a requirement. With the new airport, they said that it was online only, but everyone knew that there was a desk at the airport and those that slipped by could buy a visa (although that visa at different times was a bit different.........5 dollars more, or limited to one entry. However after Covid they removed visa requirements for the UK, and then about 4 months ago from US visitors. BA's "verification" system does not seem to reflect this, or only does so hit and miss.
Just to reiterate, my biggest problem about the spoken announcement, other than the announcement itself, was the statement about it being ILLEGAL, and about fines and jail, and then why and how this could happen. Was it some probably progressive person with less sense than knowledge, who decided that this is the case, and slipped it into their Ipads?Was it some sort of Muslim extremist, who slipped it into the Ipad. I mean some one had to go out of their way to do this, as the announcement is normally plain vanilla, "Welcome to Istanbul....The time is...........Please remain seated..............You can now use your phones, etc"
Pucci, regarding visas, for Uk citizens it was as you stateuntil they switched over to the new airport in 2019. At that time they really pushed the online visa beforehand, but did not make it a requirement. With the new airport, they said that it was online only, but everyone knew that there was a desk at the airport and those that slipped by could buy a visa (although that visa at different times was a bit different.........5 dollars more, or limited to one entry. However after Covid they removed visa requirements for the UK, and then about 4 months ago from US visitors. BA's "verification" system does not seem to reflect this, or only does so hit and miss.
Just to reiterate, my biggest problem about the spoken announcement, other than the announcement itself, was the statement about it being ILLEGAL, and about fines and jail, and then why and how this could happen. Was it some probably progressive person with less sense than knowledge, who decided that this is the case, and slipped it into their Ipads?Was it some sort of Muslim extremist, who slipped it into the Ipad. I mean some one had to go out of their way to do this, as the announcement is normally plain vanilla, "Welcome to Istanbul....The time is...........Please remain seated..............You can now use your phones, etc"
Mar 29, 2024, 7:58 am
#28
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BA should just ignore and not even try to be 'cultural-destination' appropriate, when flying to a particular destination. When BA tries to do the right thing, it is then open to all sorts misinterpretation and complaints. Why then even bother. (Rather similar to another political problem airlines face; particularly with CX. is which Chinese dialect to use first, with cabin announcements ; Mandarin or Cantonese)
Mar 30, 2024, 4:25 am
#29
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They eliminated the entire staff over the years, but had two airport managers that had experience, they are all gone, replaced by a former KLM guy, who I believe is also gone (have not seen him in forever), and everything seemingly is now done by 3rd party contract workers. Meaning that I do not believe that there is anyone left to even feed back to London about such things anymore.
Mar 30, 2024, 5:07 am
#30
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I've always been amused that on BA flights to and from GVA the automated announcements are made in German and occasionally in French. Whilst there well may be some German speakers on board, GVA is clearly well in French speaking Switzerland and the vast majority of non-English speakers will be French speakers.