Coaches, planes, and automobiles - or how a TP run trip can go wrong
Jan 12, 2023, 3:41 am
#1
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Coaches, planes, and automobiles - or how a TP run trip can go wrong
I hope you will indulge me for this thread. I thought I would write a short trip report after an interesting recent trip. It came out of this thread where the disruption at SFO was reported, and Confus's suggestion my own story might make a interesting reading SFO flight landed in OAK
Over new year I had a trip to the west coast of the US. This was on a BA ticket with the appropriate TP optimised transcons thrown in to SFO. Whilst I was in the US I had two multi sector bookings on Alaska, partly as I had some vouchers with them I needed to use up.
Boarding another AS flight earlier in the week at a remote stand in LAX
After NY in LA the plan was a day trip to San Jose on 1 January, then one flight from LAX to SFO on 2 January, an overnight near SFO, and then picking up the first flight of the return of the BA ticket which was for SFO-JFK at 1100 on 3 January.
I had only travelled with Alaska once before, but on this trip all the flights seemed fine and mostly on time and a few with 1 hour or so delays.
The night of 1 January I was staying in the Curio LAX which is my favourite LAX airport, mainly due to the large outdoor terrace on floor 12 which overlooks the approaches to the two northerly runways (24L and R).
Outdoor terrace and view from the Curio LAX
My LAX-SFO flight was at 1720. Anticipating possibly a busy day for travel on 2 January I left the hotel around midday and walked over to T6 - turned out there was no need to worry since the tsa pre lane was empty and I was through in minutes.
I used the underground tunnels and connector to TBIT and to the QF F lounge. Not having had any breakfast I was ready for the usual salt & pepper squid and minute steak - this trip was my first time back at LAX since 2019.
Anyway after an hour or so in QF filling my boots, I walked across to T4 to use the Flagship to pretend to work and tap away at the laptop for a bit. Around 1630 I walked across to T6.
My Alaska flight was showing at about an hour delayed but I waited around the gate and wasnt particularly concerned at that stage.
We boarded late and were told that there were weather delays at SFO, but we had a takeoff time around 1900. We did push off the stand before that and taxi down to the western end of LAX in a remote area to wait, but soon came the bad news that the weather had got worse and we didnt even have a takeoff time basically it was a case of they would get an update in 45 minutes and hopefully be given a time then. So we waited and I watched some stuff on my ipad. I did have a look at SFO on flightradar24 and it did look like a mess with landing rate being very low. At the time I just thought it would be the case of a very late arrival in to SFO, which was a little annoying but not really a massive issue for me.
Around 2000 the captain came on to say the hold had been extended by over an hour so we still didnt have a slot time, and the plan was now to taxi back to T6 with everyone off the plane to wait for updates. Once back at T6 I did start to get a little concerned we could just get cancelled and about 5/10 minutes after we were back in T6 I got a notification on the AS app that the flight was cancelled.
This was a bit of a disaster and I really needed to get to SFO to get that flight at 1100 next day. A large queue already formed at the gate for rebooking, so it seemed pointless to join that. I already knew there was I think only one other AS flight that night to SFO and it was full, not that there was any guarantee of it going anyway, so that option seemed a bit pointless.
My ideal solution was to be rebooked from my SFO-JFK transcon next day to a LAX-JFK transcon. My impression was this might work as I did think AA had a policy of covering disruption when connecting to/from another oneworld flight even when on separate tickets. So I walked back to T4 and up to the flagship to speak to an AA agent. After explaining the situation though she said she couldnt help, and that there was no such policy I did try and find it but I couldnt see it anywhere to show her. I guess the other problem was at that time I hadnt actually misconnected. She also seemed very reluctant to touch the ticket due to it being a BA one.
Anyway, after a few minutes of discussion I thanked her and went outside the lounge to have a sit and think. I just didnt think any flight option would really get me in to SFO that night or next morning on time. So one possibility was trying to book a one way on avios (if there were reward seats) to get back to the UK.
I didnt really think of trying to hire a car although I have been driving in the UK for over 20 years, I had never driven in the US and starting now with a 6-8 hour drive overnight after a few drinks was probably not a good idea.
I also looked at Amtrak but there was nothing available that night, and the first train got in too late to make my flight so that was no use.
I did think of an overnight coach. I wasnt sure there was anything I could get at this stage it was around 2100 by this stage. Quick google search revealed flixbus ran coaches between the two cities, and as luck would have it there was a service leaving LA at 1120, getting in to San Francisco at 0700, so even allowing for a delay of an hour or two that would work. There were only a few seats left so price was $99. I was offered to pay for the seat next to me to keep it free at another $99, but decided not to take it.
Now, I have done coach travel in the UK many times, mostly on National Express. I even did 4.5 hour flixbus a few months ago from Leeds to London due to the train strikes, so I though I knew what I was letting myself in for.
Previous flixbus travel in the UK
The pick up point was a car park near Union station, so next challenge was to get there and I needed to get an uber. Rideshares and taxis at LAX have a central pick up point called LAX-it for all terminals which is just east of T1. I was a bit further away by now in T4, so went out and got one of the frequent green LAX-it buses which takes you there. What I should have done is started ordering the uber before I go to the lot, but I didnt. So by the time I ordered it, and due to the traffic around LAX, it took about 15 minutes to get there.
I got to the pick up point around 2230 which was in a rather interesting area.
Flixbus waiting area
I thought it would be a good idea to cross the road and go to Union station for a toilet break before the ride. Not sure what I was expecting at that time of night, but lets say the toilets were not occupied by your average commuter traveller.
Anyway eventually the coach arrived around 2315 and started boarding. Fortunately I just had a rucksack so could keep that at my feet onboard. The coach was pretty much full, but at that stage the seat next to me was free. There were lots of people with all sorts of smelly food, and to be honest there was certainly a smell on that coach although I guess by the time I got off next day and had spent 24 hours in the same clothes without a wash I may have been contributing to it.
We left on time. I would say the seat itself was ok and reasonably comfortable, and the knee room was actually decent as I had enough space for my rucksack at my feet as well. However, despite the comfort of the seat by hour eight even I was finding it difficult to get comfortable.
Another service boarding
My flixbus to San Francisco
We had one stop on the way out of LA at UCLA. I am afraid my free seat went at that point and a young woman took the window seat next to me. I did think she might be a uni student, but she did seem to be a bit dim. She asked where we were stopping and I showed the flixbus app which showed a stop around 0230 at someplace which looked like a truck stop, then San Jose and on to San Francisco. The coach ended at Berkeley which seemed to be where she was going but obviously that was beyond the end of my journey. Anyway she proceeded to suggest to me that I was on the wrong coach and tell me it wouldnt go to San Francisco before going to Oakland and Berkeley. She did question my knowledge of the bay area but - tbh it made sense to me to go San Jose, San Francisco, then across the bridge to Oakland. Anyway we left it at that.
Surprisingly I did manage to sleep, but it was in 30-60 minute bursts with being briefly awake in between. I was towards the front of the coach and could see out of the front considering the driving I decided it was best to just keep my eyes closed as much as possible.
About 0230 in the morning we came off the freeway, I think somewhere near Avenal. We had a 10 minute stop once off the freeway, near a few fuel stations and a fast food place which had toilets. I used the opportunity to use the loo I was trying not to use the one on the coach!
Back on the coach and off again racing through the night. Once we got onboard the young lady next to me decided to search for a spare seat further back and left me on my own was it something I said? At least I had a free seat now.
Same as before, I managed to get some short periods of sleep through the night. One passenger nearby who was watching something on their phone without headphones was a bit annoying but fortunately not too bad.
By 0545 we were coming in to San Jose and had a stop their where a few people got off. Not far to go now. I suppose the only disappointment was we didnt stop near SFO when we went past. Anyway, eventually got in to San Francisco and stopped near the train station just before 0700. I would have happily used the BART to get to the airport but the nearest stop was about 15 minutes walk away and I wasnt in the mood, so instead got an uber from there to SFO.
uber to SFO
Once at SFO, straight through security (thank you tsa pre) in the newly refurbished T1 which actually looks quite nice now. Up to the AC and had my usual coffee and bagel. By the time I was getting towards 1100 I was very keen to board and get to NYC where I actually had a bed for the night.
SFO gate
Sunset on SFO-JFK
I dont normally have the sundae on AA as I dont have a particularly sweet tooth, but I decided to treat myself after my ordeal.
Sundae
We arrived in to JFK about 20 minutes late, but I was pleased to get there at last.
JFK
From hotel in NYC
So a bit of an ordeal but fortunately able to get myself out of it at fairly minimal expense, but with a bit of discomfort. I guess life lesson here is perhaps I should have booked something from LAX-SFO earlier in the day to give myself a bit more padding between separate bookings, especially when going in to a very busy weather prone airport. Also I cant recommend the overnight flixbus between the two cities. If I had more time I would have chosen the train instead.
Over new year I had a trip to the west coast of the US. This was on a BA ticket with the appropriate TP optimised transcons thrown in to SFO. Whilst I was in the US I had two multi sector bookings on Alaska, partly as I had some vouchers with them I needed to use up.
Boarding another AS flight earlier in the week at a remote stand in LAX
After NY in LA the plan was a day trip to San Jose on 1 January, then one flight from LAX to SFO on 2 January, an overnight near SFO, and then picking up the first flight of the return of the BA ticket which was for SFO-JFK at 1100 on 3 January.
I had only travelled with Alaska once before, but on this trip all the flights seemed fine and mostly on time and a few with 1 hour or so delays.
The night of 1 January I was staying in the Curio LAX which is my favourite LAX airport, mainly due to the large outdoor terrace on floor 12 which overlooks the approaches to the two northerly runways (24L and R).
Outdoor terrace and view from the Curio LAX
My LAX-SFO flight was at 1720. Anticipating possibly a busy day for travel on 2 January I left the hotel around midday and walked over to T6 - turned out there was no need to worry since the tsa pre lane was empty and I was through in minutes.
I used the underground tunnels and connector to TBIT and to the QF F lounge. Not having had any breakfast I was ready for the usual salt & pepper squid and minute steak - this trip was my first time back at LAX since 2019.
Anyway after an hour or so in QF filling my boots, I walked across to T4 to use the Flagship to pretend to work and tap away at the laptop for a bit. Around 1630 I walked across to T6.
My Alaska flight was showing at about an hour delayed but I waited around the gate and wasnt particularly concerned at that stage.
We boarded late and were told that there were weather delays at SFO, but we had a takeoff time around 1900. We did push off the stand before that and taxi down to the western end of LAX in a remote area to wait, but soon came the bad news that the weather had got worse and we didnt even have a takeoff time basically it was a case of they would get an update in 45 minutes and hopefully be given a time then. So we waited and I watched some stuff on my ipad. I did have a look at SFO on flightradar24 and it did look like a mess with landing rate being very low. At the time I just thought it would be the case of a very late arrival in to SFO, which was a little annoying but not really a massive issue for me.
Around 2000 the captain came on to say the hold had been extended by over an hour so we still didnt have a slot time, and the plan was now to taxi back to T6 with everyone off the plane to wait for updates. Once back at T6 I did start to get a little concerned we could just get cancelled and about 5/10 minutes after we were back in T6 I got a notification on the AS app that the flight was cancelled.
This was a bit of a disaster and I really needed to get to SFO to get that flight at 1100 next day. A large queue already formed at the gate for rebooking, so it seemed pointless to join that. I already knew there was I think only one other AS flight that night to SFO and it was full, not that there was any guarantee of it going anyway, so that option seemed a bit pointless.
My ideal solution was to be rebooked from my SFO-JFK transcon next day to a LAX-JFK transcon. My impression was this might work as I did think AA had a policy of covering disruption when connecting to/from another oneworld flight even when on separate tickets. So I walked back to T4 and up to the flagship to speak to an AA agent. After explaining the situation though she said she couldnt help, and that there was no such policy I did try and find it but I couldnt see it anywhere to show her. I guess the other problem was at that time I hadnt actually misconnected. She also seemed very reluctant to touch the ticket due to it being a BA one.
Anyway, after a few minutes of discussion I thanked her and went outside the lounge to have a sit and think. I just didnt think any flight option would really get me in to SFO that night or next morning on time. So one possibility was trying to book a one way on avios (if there were reward seats) to get back to the UK.
I didnt really think of trying to hire a car although I have been driving in the UK for over 20 years, I had never driven in the US and starting now with a 6-8 hour drive overnight after a few drinks was probably not a good idea.
I also looked at Amtrak but there was nothing available that night, and the first train got in too late to make my flight so that was no use.
I did think of an overnight coach. I wasnt sure there was anything I could get at this stage it was around 2100 by this stage. Quick google search revealed flixbus ran coaches between the two cities, and as luck would have it there was a service leaving LA at 1120, getting in to San Francisco at 0700, so even allowing for a delay of an hour or two that would work. There were only a few seats left so price was $99. I was offered to pay for the seat next to me to keep it free at another $99, but decided not to take it.
Now, I have done coach travel in the UK many times, mostly on National Express. I even did 4.5 hour flixbus a few months ago from Leeds to London due to the train strikes, so I though I knew what I was letting myself in for.
Previous flixbus travel in the UK
The pick up point was a car park near Union station, so next challenge was to get there and I needed to get an uber. Rideshares and taxis at LAX have a central pick up point called LAX-it for all terminals which is just east of T1. I was a bit further away by now in T4, so went out and got one of the frequent green LAX-it buses which takes you there. What I should have done is started ordering the uber before I go to the lot, but I didnt. So by the time I ordered it, and due to the traffic around LAX, it took about 15 minutes to get there.
I got to the pick up point around 2230 which was in a rather interesting area.
Flixbus waiting area
I thought it would be a good idea to cross the road and go to Union station for a toilet break before the ride. Not sure what I was expecting at that time of night, but lets say the toilets were not occupied by your average commuter traveller.
Anyway eventually the coach arrived around 2315 and started boarding. Fortunately I just had a rucksack so could keep that at my feet onboard. The coach was pretty much full, but at that stage the seat next to me was free. There were lots of people with all sorts of smelly food, and to be honest there was certainly a smell on that coach although I guess by the time I got off next day and had spent 24 hours in the same clothes without a wash I may have been contributing to it.
We left on time. I would say the seat itself was ok and reasonably comfortable, and the knee room was actually decent as I had enough space for my rucksack at my feet as well. However, despite the comfort of the seat by hour eight even I was finding it difficult to get comfortable.
Another service boarding
My flixbus to San Francisco
We had one stop on the way out of LA at UCLA. I am afraid my free seat went at that point and a young woman took the window seat next to me. I did think she might be a uni student, but she did seem to be a bit dim. She asked where we were stopping and I showed the flixbus app which showed a stop around 0230 at someplace which looked like a truck stop, then San Jose and on to San Francisco. The coach ended at Berkeley which seemed to be where she was going but obviously that was beyond the end of my journey. Anyway she proceeded to suggest to me that I was on the wrong coach and tell me it wouldnt go to San Francisco before going to Oakland and Berkeley. She did question my knowledge of the bay area but - tbh it made sense to me to go San Jose, San Francisco, then across the bridge to Oakland. Anyway we left it at that.
Surprisingly I did manage to sleep, but it was in 30-60 minute bursts with being briefly awake in between. I was towards the front of the coach and could see out of the front considering the driving I decided it was best to just keep my eyes closed as much as possible.
About 0230 in the morning we came off the freeway, I think somewhere near Avenal. We had a 10 minute stop once off the freeway, near a few fuel stations and a fast food place which had toilets. I used the opportunity to use the loo I was trying not to use the one on the coach!
Back on the coach and off again racing through the night. Once we got onboard the young lady next to me decided to search for a spare seat further back and left me on my own was it something I said? At least I had a free seat now.
Same as before, I managed to get some short periods of sleep through the night. One passenger nearby who was watching something on their phone without headphones was a bit annoying but fortunately not too bad.
By 0545 we were coming in to San Jose and had a stop their where a few people got off. Not far to go now. I suppose the only disappointment was we didnt stop near SFO when we went past. Anyway, eventually got in to San Francisco and stopped near the train station just before 0700. I would have happily used the BART to get to the airport but the nearest stop was about 15 minutes walk away and I wasnt in the mood, so instead got an uber from there to SFO.
uber to SFO
Once at SFO, straight through security (thank you tsa pre) in the newly refurbished T1 which actually looks quite nice now. Up to the AC and had my usual coffee and bagel. By the time I was getting towards 1100 I was very keen to board and get to NYC where I actually had a bed for the night.
SFO gate
Sunset on SFO-JFK
I dont normally have the sundae on AA as I dont have a particularly sweet tooth, but I decided to treat myself after my ordeal.
Sundae
We arrived in to JFK about 20 minutes late, but I was pleased to get there at last.
JFK
From hotel in NYC
So a bit of an ordeal but fortunately able to get myself out of it at fairly minimal expense, but with a bit of discomfort. I guess life lesson here is perhaps I should have booked something from LAX-SFO earlier in the day to give myself a bit more padding between separate bookings, especially when going in to a very busy weather prone airport. Also I cant recommend the overnight flixbus between the two cities. If I had more time I would have chosen the train instead.
Last edited by KARFA; Jan 13, 2023 at 2:57 pm
Jan 12, 2023, 3:46 am
#2
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: UK
Programs: BA GGL, BA Amex Prem, Amex Plat, Hilton Diamond, Sir Crazy8534 de l'ordres des aides de Pucci
Posts: 4,552
Great report KARFA!
A Bus!!
I always imagine an overnight is basically "fail-safe" too but I guess it isn't always.
"My impression was this might work as I did think AA had a policy of covering disruption when connecting to/from another oneworld flight even when on separate tickets."
Unfortunately this officially updated in 2019 or 2020 (I think) and they no longer provide protection.
I also used to have a copy of the terms which I think were on the AA website, because the agents often didn't know anything about it.
A Bus!!
I always imagine an overnight is basically "fail-safe" too but I guess it isn't always.
"My impression was this might work as I did think AA had a policy of covering disruption when connecting to/from another oneworld flight even when on separate tickets."
Unfortunately this officially updated in 2019 or 2020 (I think) and they no longer provide protection.
I also used to have a copy of the terms which I think were on the AA website, because the agents often didn't know anything about it.
Jan 12, 2023, 3:57 am
#4
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 43,390
Great report KARFA!
A Bus!!
I always imagine an overnight is basically "fail-safe" too but I guess it isn't always.
"My impression was this might work as I did think AA had a policy of covering disruption when connecting to/from another oneworld flight even when on separate tickets."
Unfortunately this officially updated in 2019 or 2020 (I think) and they no longer provide protection.
I also used to have a copy of the terms which I think were on the AA website, because the agents often didn't know anything about it.
A Bus!!
I always imagine an overnight is basically "fail-safe" too but I guess it isn't always.
"My impression was this might work as I did think AA had a policy of covering disruption when connecting to/from another oneworld flight even when on separate tickets."
Unfortunately this officially updated in 2019 or 2020 (I think) and they no longer provide protection.
I also used to have a copy of the terms which I think were on the AA website, because the agents often didn't know anything about it.
when I was hastily searching on my iPad when stood with the AA agent that was the conclusion I was coming to since the only things I could find related to bookings ticketed before 2020.
Jan 12, 2023, 4:02 am
#5
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: UK
Programs: BA GGL, BA Amex Prem, Amex Plat, Hilton Diamond, Sir Crazy8534 de l'ordres des aides de Pucci
Posts: 4,552
yes, I think I was probably lucky to just about get away with this one despite the discomfort.
when I was hastily searching on my iPad when stood with the AA agent that was the conclusion I was coming to since the only things I could find related to bookings ticketed before 2020.
when I was hastily searching on my iPad when stood with the AA agent that was the conclusion I was coming to since the only things I could find related to bookings ticketed before 2020.
The change seems to be noticed in a JohnNYC tweet from Sept 2019.
The AA forum certainly know how to keep a thread alive in its dotage, that's for sure...!
Edit: I have actually re-read that thread now and I am not really sure it is saying what I thought it was saying so who really knows what you can or cannot get out of AA in IRROPS nowadays. Feel free to head over to the AA forum to ask and let me know, I am pretty sure I am in exile over there so I do not volunteer!
Last edited by crazy8534; Jan 12, 2023 at 4:16 am
Jan 12, 2023, 4:09 am
#7
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: UK
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Posts: 4,552
Actually it reminds me of (and I know I will be pasted by the youtuber haters!) Noel* who tried to do a TR in a Greyhound bus across the US and was having an absolutely terrible but frankly hilarious time but then was eventually curtailed by a snowstorm in Dallas (I think, of all places) and had to get a plane home!
Jan 12, 2023, 4:35 am
#8
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: BHD
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Posts: 581
KARFA I was with you for every step of your story. It took me back to my backpacking days and early 1986. I was in San Francisco and had a flight booked home to SYD from YVR. I had a Trailways bus pass and had allowed plenty of time for the journey up the west coast of the US. Unfortunately I delayed my departure by 24hrs (yes there was a woman involved!) which coincided with some of the worst storms to hit the bay area in years. The resultant flooding meant buses taking massive diversions. I think it took some 36 hrs to get to Vancouver and did actually get to the airport with quite a few hours to spare. In those long ago days with no money or status or lounge access , by the time I eventually got to SYD, I had gone 57 hours without a bed or shower!!! I can appreciate the description of bus stations. There was quite a few hours spent changing buses at some of these less than desirable places in my travels across the US.
