BA ending first class to ATL

Old Nov 19, 22, 2:25 am
  #16  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GfL+CCR, Aclub Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 28,192
My personal prediction is that an increasing number of routes will lose F in years to come and BA will specialise in a few markets where they can sell their 8F at a hefty price. I think that they will keep more F destinations than, say, AF, but quite a lot fewer than they do now and I wouldn't be surprised if they announced that as part of equipment modernisation, they will switch more planes to 3 class than initially announced.

I may of course be totally wrong on all of that, but part of my thinking is that a paradoxical effect of the move to 8F is that whilst it makes seats less hard to fill, it means that the crewing impact of having an F cabin paradoxically higher (ie you commit the extra crew for an even smaller number of passengers and it may quickly not feel worth it). It also likely means that any ticket you need to sell at a discounted price (or worse, offer for awards or upgrades) brings the yield more dramatically down each time. All of this can quickly make the reduction in F a bit of a vicious circle, and whilst I have no doubt that this will prove a worthwhile switch on routes with high F potential (JFK, LAX, etc) many of the second tier destinations (from the point of view of BA's network -- I mean ATL is a huge airport, but simply not centre stage from the point of view of BA's strategy itself) will be deemed candidates to 3 class.
Swanhunter and crazy8534 like this.
orbitmic is offline  
Old Nov 19, 22, 8:08 am
  #17  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Franche Comt, FR, Atlanta, USA
Programs: DL DM, 2MM, BA Gold, A3 Gold
Posts: 285
Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
My personal prediction is that an increasing number of routes will lose F in years to come and BA will specialise in a few markets where they can sell their 8F at a hefty price. I think that they will keep more F destinations than, say, AF, but quite a lot fewer than they do now and I wouldn't be surprised if they announced that as part of equipment modernisation, they will switch more planes to 3 class than initially announced.

I may of course be totally wrong on all of that, but part of my thinking is that a paradoxical effect of the move to 8F is that whilst it makes seats less hard to fill, it means that the crewing impact of having an F cabin paradoxically higher (ie you commit the extra crew for an even smaller number of passengers and it may quickly not feel worth it). It also likely means that any ticket you need to sell at a discounted price (or worse, offer for awards or upgrades) brings the yield more dramatically down each time. All of this can quickly make the reduction in F a bit of a vicious circle, and whilst I have no doubt that this will prove a worthwhile switch on routes with high F potential (JFK, LAX, etc) many of the second tier destinations (from the point of view of BA's network -- I mean ATL is a huge airport, but simply not centre stage from the point of view of BA's strategy itself) will be deemed candidates to 3 class.
Unfortunately for me I agree with your thinking and you are certainly correct about ATL not being "center stage" in BAs strategy.

Originally Posted by crazy8534 View Post
I meant the 14F 777s, which I assume will all be gone by sometime next year.
I had forgotten about those.
orbitmic likes this.

Last edited by Prospero; Nov 19, 22 at 6:06 pm Reason: Combine consecutive posts
ATLCDG is offline  
Old Nov 19, 22, 8:27 am
  #18  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 25,929
Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
I may of course be totally wrong on all of that, but part of my thinking is that a paradoxical effect of the move to 8F is that whilst it makes seats less hard to fill, it means that the crewing impact of having an F cabin paradoxically higher (ie you commit the extra crew for an even smaller number of passengers and it may quickly not feel worth it).
I assume they go from 3 FAs for 14 down to 2 for 8, no? Yes its slightly less favorable but has to be considered in the context of the crew requirements for the rest of the plane, eg, they may need an extra crew for a larger J cabin now, so no overall change, and then it comes down to the relative yields. Lots of moving parts in this calculation
ATLCDG likes this.
ijgordon is offline  
Old Nov 19, 22, 8:50 am
  #19  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GfL+CCR, Aclub Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 28,192
Originally Posted by ijgordon View Post
I assume they go from 3 FAs for 14 down to 2 for 8, no? Yes its slightly less favorable but has to be considered in the context of the crew requirements for the rest of the plane, eg, they may need an extra crew for a larger J cabin now, so no overall change, and then it comes down to the relative yields. Lots of moving parts in this calculation
Yes, it should be 2 crew members on an 8 F, but on several planes, I suspect there would be no (regulatory) need for extra crew members in J or W or Y if any of those cabins is enlarged instead of F. And yes, exactly, it is then a question of yield, but BA have never made a secret of the fact that F is not the cabin on which they make the most money: W and J are overall significantly more profitable. It doesn't mean that F loses money, and again, on some routes I'm sure it is a healthy earner, but my guestimate is that on an increasing number of other ones, BA will decide that F is not worth it.

As I said, it's a merely guestimate on my part and may very well be wrong, but it is a guestimate that was certainly trying to take into account those moving parts and more (such as the fact that complexity in the fleet leads to losses as sometimes you end up using a 4 cabin plane on 3 cabin routes which is suboptimal.
ATLCDG likes this.
orbitmic is offline  
Old Nov 19, 22, 9:14 am
  #20  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: MIA
Programs: DL Plat, AA EXP, UA Silver, AC 75K. Marriott LTT, HH Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 789
BA F out of ATL has often been really "cheap" - I go to Dubai a couple of times and F out of ATL is usually a lot cheaper than J from MIA - did that a few times and just bought DL or AA ticket to/from MIA. Was a nicer flight and great for AA points
ATLCDG likes this.
flying_geek is offline  
Old Nov 19, 22, 11:09 am
  #21  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: U.K.
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by ATLCDG View Post
Unless it is an IT error, it appears that BA is ending First on flights to/from ATL. All F buckets for April have been zeroed out on the 781. Starting in May it is a 777 with no First cabin. Unfortunately, for me it is the only reason I fly BA. ...I do hope it is an IT error...
i am on it in May, still shows 781 and in First
Magnus77 is offline  
Old Nov 19, 22, 12:26 pm
  #22  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Franche Comt, FR, Atlanta, USA
Programs: DL DM, 2MM, BA Gold, A3 Gold
Posts: 285
Originally Posted by Magnus77 View Post
i am on it in May, still shows 781 and in First
That is the odd thing. You can no longer book seats in first in May. All F and A buckets have been zeroed out. I have a feeling they will switch your 781 for a non F 777. I hope I am wrong.
orbitmic likes this.
ATLCDG is offline  
Old Nov 19, 22, 3:09 pm
  #23  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: U.K.
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by ATLCDG View Post
That is the odd thing. You can no longer book seats in first in May. All F and A buckets have been zeroed out. I have a feeling they will switch your 781 for a non F 777. I hope I am wrong.
Just done a dummy booking only club on the app for the days I have booked. Guess I will be going via somewhere else then again 😪
Magnus77 is offline  
Old Nov 19, 22, 4:57 pm
  #24  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Franche Comt, FR, Atlanta, USA
Programs: DL DM, 2MM, BA Gold, A3 Gold
Posts: 285
Originally Posted by Magnus77 View Post
Just done a dummy booking only club on the app for the days I have booked. Guess I will be going via somewhere else then again 😪
I hope not for you. 🤞
ATLCDG is offline  
Old Nov 19, 22, 5:24 pm
  #25  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: U.K.
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by ATLCDG View Post
I hope not for you. 🤞
Thanks, looks like MIA or ORD are the only viable options. But I loathe the dump that is ORD's lounge. I am waiting for the dreaded email
ATLCDG likes this.
Magnus77 is offline  
Old Nov 19, 22, 5:37 pm
  #26  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brentwood
Programs: BAEC silver, HH Diamond, IHG Plat
Posts: 71
We came back in F from ATL on Thursday due to plenty of reward seats. I suppose J only still gets the crappy security queues and terrible lounge but gets you off to sleep earlier with quicker meal service? That being said will be a loss of a 'easier' redemption
DrAJ is offline  
Old Nov 19, 22, 5:59 pm
  #27  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Franche Comt, FR, Atlanta, USA
Programs: DL DM, 2MM, BA Gold, A3 Gold
Posts: 285
Originally Posted by DrAJ View Post
We came back in F from ATL on Thursday due to plenty of reward seats. I suppose J only still gets the crappy security queues and terrible lounge but gets you off to sleep earlier with quicker meal service? That being said will be a loss of a 'easier' redemption
That lounge is horrible.
ATLCDG is offline  
Old Nov 20, 22, 6:38 am
  #28  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: U.K.
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by ATLCDG View Post
I hope not for you. 🤞
Just spoke to the goldline.Firstly told me that cabin is sold out. I said I am the only person in First.Then we talked about this good forum, they said they had seen flyertalk Then confirmed for May, June and July its a non F 777, although stated no decision has been made apparently. Which is odd as its changed on the app. So clearly they have done so
Magnus77 is offline  
Old Nov 20, 22, 8:13 am
  #29  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Franche Comt, FR, Atlanta, USA
Programs: DL DM, 2MM, BA Gold, A3 Gold
Posts: 285
Originally Posted by Magnus77 View Post
Just spoke to the goldline.Firstly told me that cabin is sold out. I said I am the only person in First.Then we talked about this good forum, they said they had seen flyertalk Then confirmed for May, June and July its a non F 777, although stated no decision has been made apparently. Which is odd as its changed on the app. So clearly they have done so
It will be interesting to see how long it takes them to send you an email about the change.
ATLCDG is offline  
Old Nov 20, 22, 10:49 am
  #30  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: U.K.
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by ATLCDG View Post
It will be interesting to see how long it takes them to send you an email about the change.
Yes they have said up to 2 weeks. Depends on revenue management. Regardless of that I will have to overnight in Atlanta on my return as my AA connection was timed to get me on the 226 service to London.
ATLCDG likes this.
Magnus77 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread