corporate-wage-slave

Potentially yes, but this is a hypothetical argument since regardless of that, if someone sent in a hotel bill to BA, they would almost certainly pay it.

alex67500

Sorry but that means that if the delay is attributable to a non-EU airline in the sense of EU261, duty of care doesn't apply? Isn't there some clause under the Montreal convention? Or is this where you test the limits of your travel insurance? (say if BA refused to pay for the hotel, or travelling with someone else)

Upupintheair

Can I just check something with regards to the 8 weeks waiting period before submitting to CEDR: I was delayed more than 3 hours due to the IT meltdown on March 30, submitting my claim to BA and they have now twice replied I was not entitled for compensation. Do I still need to wait the 8 weeks before I can submit the claim to CEDR? I do not have a 'deadlock' letter, just refusal twice. Can I now proceed or need to wait?

corporate-wage-slave

CEDR does check this, so you either have to wait for 8 weeks or get the deadlock letter. Hence the advice upthread to not engage after the first decline and merely seek confirmation that "your answer will not change". Otherwise it drags the whole thing out, as you have seen.

NickB

A flight into the EU from a non-EU carrier is outside the scope of Reg 261/2004, so no compensation, no right no care, no anything under Reg 261/2004.

The Montreal Convention should, however, be applicable in the majority of cases and does cover delays but claiming under the Convention is more complicated than under Reg 261/2004. Conditions of liability are stricter than under the EU Reg (eg: carrier is not liable if they can show that they took all reasonable measures to avoid the damage) and the action is in damages, which means that you need to show damage and you are also subject to whatever limitations to recoverable damages exist under the legal system under which you are suing (or rather their understanding of what damages are recoverable under the Montreal Convention). That said, I would have thought that, depending on the situation, at least some right to care type expenses might be recoverable under the Montreal Convention but it is a more complex issue than under Reg 261/2004.

corporate-wage-slave

It's not in the Montréal or Warsaw conventions, which are more about physical damage to people or baggage. So if BA and AA services are the same cost on the same trip there is some merit in choosing BA. There are various DOT rulings, but in essence if you are on a USA airlines, bad weather strikes and flights get cancelled, then it's down to you to pay for hotels and meals. If the airline is fully to blame (so a technical problem, for example) then you may get some help from the airline. In a way EC261's rules relating to Right to Care are more important than the compensation claims that dominate this thread. That said, most respectable travel insurance would either have a missed or delayed departure payment provision.

NickB

Delays in the carriage of persons (or baggage) is covered by the Montreal Convention (of Warsaw Convention for that matter) (Article 19 in both Conventions). The big difference between the Reg 261/2004 right to care and the Conventions is that the carrier can exonerate themselves under the latter where the cause of the delay is outside their control.

corporate-wage-slave

My "it" referred to Right to Care, but your earlier post gives the complexities in this area. The relevant clause being "The carrier is liable for damage occasioned by delay in the carriage by air of passengers, baggage or cargo. Nevertheless, the carrier shall not be liable for damage occasioned by delay if it proves that it and its servants and agents took all measures that could reasonably be required to avoid the damage or that it was impossible for it or them to take such measures.". And the damage can't be mental anguish or related areas.

DerpDev

HI - First time posting here and hoping for some help.
I recently submitted a complaint via the BA system following a long call (yes I managed to get through somehow!) with a helpful customer services rep after my OH & I had our flights cancelled to Tokyo from LHR on 26th June returning 11th July. These were booked on CW via a 2-4-1 which had been part of a FTV and when booking we were told that should BA cancel we will get the full voucher, avios and taxes back and valid until September 2023. Obviously, BA have now cancelled and stated they are only willing to re-book us onto a flight until December which works for neither of us as we have a hectic schedule with work and taking off 2-3 weeks requires planning in advance.
The helpful agent suggested putting through a complaint as he's seen some people have luck with this - I did so and have had a response that came through via email asking for more information but cannot find a way (other than reply directly to the email) to actually respond back with the information. Is someone able to confirm how I do respond to the additional request - I am wondering whether I am just being a bit silly and missing an easy fix here?
Thanks!

corporate-wage-slave

Welcome to Flyertalk and welcome to the BA forum. Generally speaking there is a link at the bottom of any substantive email reply from Customer Service. But if not, and assuming you have a tracking number for the complaint, then just create a blank complaint webform via this link:
ba.com/complaints
The other thing to note is that BA did say they would refund FTVs so if they re-instate that then you would get a refund anyway, plus I'm surprised the customer service agent couldn't do it. Perhaps that was because you talked to someone in Commercial rather than BAEC, since redemptions are in a different department. One other thing you can try is just emailing this address with your membership number, date of birth, email address and postcode to
[email protected]
[note for anyone else skim reading: the above address is ONLY for BAEC and redemptions, NOT commercial bookings].

With the cancellation, there is no dispute that you get a full cash / Avios refund, past the FTV that took you there, and relating to your original spend with BA.

DerpDev

Thanks for the quick reply corporate-wage-slave - that's incredibly helpful. For some reason there wasn't a link that seemed to offer a chance to apply.

I think the email option might be the best route and I can copy in the chain to make sure they can keep track of the conversation and complaint in general. Hoping it is as easy as them being able to offer the original terms and I can rebook on for next summer and that Japan will re-introduce tourism by then!

pazza2000

Looking for some advice please, inbound cancelled from BER into LHR during last months IT blip, accepted online a rebooking for an earlier flight into LCY, however then cancelled that realising there was a more convenient option via Avios into LHR. Would I still be entitled to EU261 having later cancelled my accepted alternative flight?

corporate-wage-slave

It depends on the timings and when you were told. How much notice did you get of the cancel? And what was the timing of the replacement service? This may not be straightforward since BA generally works on the basis that you can't just change your mind having agreed to one course of action.

alex67500

But in that case, the (financial) damage could be having to book a hotel room to avoid sleeping outside an airport which shuts overnight, right? I realise it's all hypothetical, maybe I'll keep the noise down in this thread sorry.

corporate-wage-slave

USA airports don't shut, on the whole, particularly in bad weather. It's a rite of passage to sleep in airports when the weather hits, though not a rite in which I would indulge. Which is why I have travel insurance, or self insure.