groenroos

I was directed here from the JAL side. I'm considering booking NRT-ITM with JAL in their domestic business class ("Class J") as an alternative to taking a train to Kyoto.

The chart on BA.com would suggest the normal 40 TP for this route in Business:


However, JAL's website doesn't reveal the underlying fare bucket at any point during the booking process.

On Flyertalk and elsewhere I've seen varying anecdotes claiming domestic Class J is on the J, I, or even L (economy) fare basis. There's also about 8 different possible prices for the same service class, I went with SAKITOKU TypeA Advanced Purchase Fare - I don't know if that would make a difference in the booking class. There is no higher service class available for this route.

I followed the booking process, hoping some summary screen before payment would mention the booking class. To my surprise, it confirmed my booking prior to paying!

Using my (unpaid) booking reference, I was able to pull the booking up on BA MMB - where the screen says I'd be eligible for 10 TP - not the promised 40 TP. The MMB flight info lists the selling class as L, which would suggest economy.

Does anyone have experience with domestic Class J with JAL posting 40 TP? Is it dependent on the fare chosen? Or is it showing 10 TP because I haven't paid for it yet (given JAL's apparently rather laissez-faire domestic upgrade policy)?

hearingdouble

I have always received 40 TPs per sector for travelling JAL domestic business class (which is marketed as “J Class” even though it covers a multitude of fare buckets).

(I should add that - unless you’re connecting in NRT or desperate for the TPs - you’d be mad to take a train out to Narita from Tokyo, fly to Itami, and then connect to Kyoto (presumably by airport bus). Shinkansen is the logical choice here.)

groenroos

Would you happen to remember which fare you chose? Do you reckon it's this advance purchase fare that would make the TPs go down? Or should I gamble and hope it posts as 40 TP after paying / flying?

That's the dilemma - we're arriving at NRT on BA5 the same day, and need to make our way to our hotel in Kyoto. The choices are either 4,5 hours on the various trains to get there by ground; or stay at NRT, wait for the JAL domestic flight, and catch a bus to Kyoto from Osaka. Flying ultimately gets us there far later in the day (since JAL3005 is in the late afternoon), but hopefully it's less exhausting / boring, especially right off the back of an 11-hour WT+ flight to NRT to begin with. More of this saga over on the JAL side.

scottishpoet

if you are booked into selling class L then it looks like you are not in J, but in a low economy fare

groenroos

So it would seem - but the service class I booked is still "Class J", which (as far as I can tell) is JAL's domestic business class product. It even allows me to select seats in the Class J section. So it's a bit funny it would be sold in the L bucket.

This thread seems full of people getting 40 TP for their Class J travel. I wonder if it's the advance purchase rate that keeps the TP down - or it could even be that since the booking is still unpaid, it's an economy booking that gets upgraded into I/J behind the scenes once it's paid?

SKT-DK

I have always received 40 TPs for domestic Class J flights - these have however always been booked as connections on an international itinerary and typically booked into D class, I believe. I do not know for stand-alone bookings, but they should book into the fare buckets BA list as "Business" in order to get 40 TPs.

Note that Class J is not really a business class product, but more of a premium economy (one less seat per row and you get a cup of tea, pretty much) - hence, maybe the reason why there are blurred lines between what BA lists as Business and what JAL is willing to sell as Class J.

lcylocal

I won’t rehearse everything that being said over on the JAL thread except to say from my limited experience I would go Shinkansen unless I was really chasing tier points.

I would be fine with a reserved ordinary car ticket. You will want to look into a Japan Rail Pass anyway if you are planning on using the Shinkansen and other trains during your trip.

While not essential to use the luggage courier service I probably would. Be aware it might not arrive at your hotel until next day so you will want an overnight bag. Yamato is ubiquitous (Traveling to Japan | YAMATO TRANSPORT GLOBAL) and I think there is a JAL branded option too at NRT. No need to pre-book pay just go to the desk in arrivals.

hearingdouble

I’ve checked the files. I’ve never paid cash in advance for a J Class seat - JAL have a fantastic on-the-day standby upgrade programme for 1000 yen and as a OWE I’ve never failed to get the upgrade. These upgrades post into the J bucket. (I’m afraid I have no explanation for what’s going on with your ticket.)

If you have decent status I would be tempted to buy a very cheap economy sector (check out the JAL Explorer Pass) and then cross your fingers for the J Class upgrade if you need the TPs. If you don’t get one, no worries - the travel experience is very similar between the classes.

Slightly different considerations on routes that offer domestic F class, but this isn’t one of them.

DrSickle

I have no experience about BA, but I once flew in Class J on a discount Sakitoku fare crediting to AY, and the AY point record showed it as booking class I. This was in 2017.

As others have said, this is really just a more comfortable seat without any airport services (no lounge, no boarding priority, no priority check-in) and no onboard meal. I do like the hard product and honestly I prefer JL J to intra-EU (narrowbody)J

LTN Phobia

Good grief man/woman, NRT in this case is mad! Take a HND to ITM instead

etiene

I went the airport upgrade route in October - that credited as I without intervention. I did the Sakitoku advance fares a couple of years before that though and had no issues with it posting properly. I think I had similar concerns to you before hand though, as the only avenues I could find to the fare class gave it as something which the BA calc said belonged in economy. I'd trust JAL to get this right.

groenroos

If only there were incoming flights to HND that didn't leave London at awkward times, and we would be having a very different conversation (or none at all)!

My motivation for flying (aside from the TP) is to avoid the trains as much as possible, for I am a delicate flower. Doing a NRT-HND transfer would rather scupper the whole point.

groenroos

That is a very good data point, thank you!

I do wonder what basis for complaint I would have, if any, if it posts as 10 TP in the end? Neither airline has made any explicit promise of 40 TP, and BA's MMB is saying 10 TP for my specific booking prior to paying...

LTN Phobia

There is a direct coach from NRT to HND. That will allow you to avoid all trains up to ITM (and HND-ITM is very frequent and offers very comfortable domestic F).

One problem with Class J is that it isn't suitable for a delicate flower. They put 2-3 seating on many of them and you could end up in the middle seat (they do not block the middle seat, and it is often full), so it's much worse than CE. No food, and not even a drink on some routes (you do get non-alcoholic drinks on NRT-ITM). Taking a Narita Express to Tokyo and then a bullet train from Tokyo to Kyoto, both in Green Car (first class) is far more comfortable than Class J and more spacious. Domestic F ex-HND is a different matter, however. That is a nice seat, you get a meal, a champagne if you prefer, as well. However, you will need to either take the bus + train to Kyoto, or a bus to Kyoto. You won't win with this one.

I would take the NEX + bullet train in Green Car to Kyoto in this case, although I do not like trains very much. They are nothing like the UK (or Japanese) suburban trains.

None.

etiene

Turns out you can go back that far on BA.com - both flights in 2017 posted as (J/I).