13901

Off topic but... if it’s a highly efficient generator, running on fuel made by capturing CO2 or by fermenting waste, the overall emissions would be lower than those of a lot of diesel cars driving around.

Irreverent Medusa

LCY update on Twitter:

OGG flyer

I do not understand why no one from the media challenges the protesters on their logic. The atmospheric concentration of CO2 attributable to aviation was around one percent of the total anthropogenic increase since the industrial revolution. Current estimates of C02 contribution from aviation are at around 2 to 4%. When you have a cancer and a cold, you do not ignore the cancer and put your energy on the cold, that just makes no sense.

If these folk really cared about the planet (and the threat IS real), they'd focus on things like agriculture (i.e. meat consumption related) that contributes over half of C02. I bet lots of meat eating hypocrites in these protests.

A university professor that inspired me often said "data is primary. It doesn't matter what your theory is, if the data does not match the theory, too bad for your theory". Yet these folks are so misguided, they focus on what is "sexy" ("planes"!) rather than protesting on animal farms or coal burning in China. Makes zero sense. My theory is that attacking aviation is far more sexy than real causes, make it all more fun to them.

tuonopepper

I have to admit one of my 1st thoughts was despatch it and let's see how good the glue is, bit like the old Solvite adds.

tuonopepper

Not too mention the cost of the extra fuel they burnt while trying to get the guy to sit down or deplane him.... Think I read somewhere (possibly here) it had to have more juice put in it... Kind of counterproductive protest there then....

dajdavies

It may be 2-4% now but as emissions from other sources fall then aviation's share will grow, and that's before counting the growth in flying that's happening.

There's also the issue that emissions at altitude appear to have a greater impact than those at ground level.

Flying might be fun, and some of us may need to do it for work but I don't think we can deny it's impact on the planet

OGG flyer

I am sorry but I do not understand.

Are you saying the protesters should not focus on C02 contributors with the larger impact? I was asking why they are not protesting at abattoirs,etc. industries that actually make a measurable material difference on climate change. Not industries that even if totally eliminated would make zero impact on projected temperature rise.

Aviation is one of the few industries that is making an effort to reduce C02, with more fuel efficient aircraft. BA is to be C02 neutral on domestic flights for instance.

You point about projected growth in aviation is moot because the growth from other contributors (meat consumption and fossil fuel burning in China is going to out pace it, as global %). My point was about logic, these people do not truly care about the planet (which is my bet for most of them). I always claimed these folks are more about their big egos and soft, easy, sexy (and most importantly FUN) targets: they get a dopamine rush from feeling superior. I bet hardly any of them can quote the actual data).

In 2020, I will have one of the longest work commutes, OGG-LHR-OGG and I feel zero guilt about it.

masmadrid

Why are you typing C zero two? Auto correct stuck or something?

lorcancoyle

I tried a plant based burger in a gluten free bun from a vegan restaurant in Portland. Had it delivered via Doordash so swings and roundabouts...

(tasted like cardboard, not inedible, but 4/10 - never again...)

anyway, on topic, I need to think about cab over DLR on Saturday if they’re blocking the public transport option!

Jagboi

I looked at the ingredients list on one of those and it read like a catalogue of industrial chemistry. No thanks.

Was it delivered from PDX?

flygirl68

Actually to a certain extent, yes you do. You need to stay well to receive your chemo treatment, a cold would delay a session. So yes you would do everything to help get rid of a cold.

David_Doyle

The solutions to climate change will be multifaceted. There won't be an overall solution if only one source is targeted. The protests are not targeted solely at aviation.

And this is to be applauded for sure. I think there's still a fundamental piece though that goes : Flights = CO2 = Climate Change. That's undeniable.

But this is a logical fallacy that is often wrongly used to excuse bad behaviour. Again I come back to - the problem is everywhere and saying "We shouldn't do x because China is doing y" isn't valid.

I take flights (a lot!!). Do I enjoy taking flights? Yes. Do I realise - more and more now - that flying isn't all "soft, easy and sexy" - Yes. I am now more and more aware of the damage that flying does, as part of a wider consciousness that the consequences of humans indiscriminate contempt for the planet are now being realised.

These protesters are not fringe anarchists, nor are ad hominem attacks going to make the science go away.

GodAtum

I was attacked yesterday after my flight landed and I was trying to get to the DLR. I was carefully making my way through the protesters who had blockaded the entrance but they kept pushing and shoving me. So I had to defend myself and hit them with my suitcase. After a scuffle I managed to push trough to catch my train.

bisonrav

Yes they are. And they are PROFOUNDLY unhelpful to the job of decarbonisation because they are working on a purely emotional level. They're a millenarian religious cult that have been lent credibility because they've glued themselves (figuratively) to a real problem. There is no science behind the idea that billions will die, there is no scientific scenario that leads to that conclusion, they are misanthropic idiots who are managing to polarise people against them and making it harder to do the real work needed. Andrew Neil forensically dismembered the arguments a couple of days ago. This isn't science, it takes science as a starting point and then delivers a typical religious thought process: we will all die unless we repent and make sacrifices. Sound familiar? It's the basis of just about every doomsday cult in history.

I work on decarbonisation in Industry as a significant part of my day job. Industry is about 35% of net carbon, thermal processing is about 70% of that. You need thermal processing for most renewables - hydroelectrics, wind farms, nuclear (still a great option), solar cells (massive glass component). Cement manufacture itself is a very big component of that - a lot of heat is needed for the initial phases of the process (there is data in the IEA publications which are freely available). There are no easy solutions, and zero net carbon requires the application of ingenuity and technology, a lot of work is going into carbon capture and use of heat pumps in industry, which ER oppose because it's manmade technolgy. Contrary to received opinion, China and India lead the world in efficient production of cement, they have quite stringent standards. I mentioned this on another thread: if you want to debate on the basis of fact rather than hyperbole, download a couple of IEA reports.

Aviation is a small component, that doesn't mean it can't improve and a lot of work is being done to improve it, but unless you want to isolate people in their own geography, it's a benefit. Moving people around helps solve the problems, it amplifies capability and builds relationships and understanding.

lorcancoyle

Seems to be quiet there today, at least judging by social media. Any first hand accounts? There tomorrow morning and inclined to show up very early just in case (they’ll want to reposition aircraft for the weekend I presume)

s...... / snort / guffaw