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Old Mar 3, 19, 4:59 am
  #151  
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Originally Posted by hearingdouble View Post


But how do you know whether your cabin is ďfull of people who paid nothing or nominal cost to be thereĒ, or whether itís full of revenue pax? And why would you even want to know if it has the potential to ruin your enjoyment so much?

If youíre sitting in the seat that you paid for, in the cabin that you paid for, and you still feel like a sucker - well, you only have yourself to blame for that.
Someone has to pay for seats or the cabin wouldnít fly...

By all means help yourself to drinks when someone else is buying and disappear or pull out the half price coupons when itís your turn... but donít complain when people start looking sideways and commenting. Canít have your cake and eat it to.
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Old Mar 3, 19, 5:35 am
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Originally Posted by amt View Post


Someone has to pay for seats or the cabin wouldnít fly...

By all means help yourself to drinks when someone else is buying and disappear or pull out the half price coupons when itís your turn... but donít complain when people start looking sideways and commenting. Canít have your cake and eat it to.
Everyone in the cabin is paying. Everyone has struck their own contractual bargain with BA and everyone has an equal right to be there.

i just find it bizarre that people would ďlook sideways and commentĒ at my presence in the cabin when redeeming my hard-earned Avios, but not when Iím flying F. Iím the same person.

Would you also look sideways at someone travelling on a cheaper non-flexible fare? Is there a sliding scale of how acceptable my presence is depending on how much Iíve paid for my seat on a particular occasion?
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Old Mar 3, 19, 6:00 am
  #153  
 
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Benj View Post
I dont think theres any chance theyll do a SQ, EY type effort, suspect an EK seat would be beyond the U.K. market too. I donít think theyíll go as far as AF either

IF they do plan to upgrade the current proposition to a better, more exclusive effort, I think theyíll like align it with the LH, LX type level, which, if weíre all being honest, itís not all that far away from now

All they need is a few more bells and whistles on board, a few ground service enhancements, including a car/ van transfer service (not that LH offer that for standard connecting/ arriving pax) and theyíre there

If overall F numbers are cut by over half, with only 8 seats on less aircraft and prices are upped a bit, I think the ground service could be managed at LHR.

I guess weíll see in a couple of years, they may well just reduce numbers and stay as is, their overall model is obviously far more successful than the airlines you quoted when you look at profit etc, Ive no idea how BA fits into that though

Personally I hope they keep it as is, I enjoy my annual redemption and having tried LH and LX, while definitely a little better, itís MUCH easier to get a BA flight as things stand and Iíd prefer the guarantee of a seat over the promise of some caviar if I get lucky.

all good points.

with 14 going to 8 on all but the a380, the 787-10 in some cases may not have F and the 350-1000 with no F I suspect that the cuts will be more than halving F seat count.

Many routes will end up with no F so if you have a much reduced seat count then you can up the price and add the extras and much improve the product.

But Iíll guarantee thereíll be moaning on here as the cheap fares and cheap upgrades go.

(And it seems very possible perhaps that they may limit F redemptions to BA emeralds only - it would create a strong incentive to aim for gold).
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Old Mar 3, 19, 6:06 am
  #154  
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I sometimes wonder how others see me when I’m sitting in Row 1, or boarding in Group 1, or relaxing in the FLounge. What? A 70+ yo in Cargos and Trainers, with a bright yellow backpack?

“Surely he should be in the back row of Economy? “
“He must be a TESCO Tourist.”

How would anyone know I’ve paid cash for my seat, as I do every time except for the annual 2-4-1?
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Old Mar 3, 19, 6:12 am
  #155  
 
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EDIT - Somehow double posted as a quote! See below!


Last edited by Cap'n Benj; Mar 3, 19 at 8:58 am
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Old Mar 3, 19, 6:15 am
  #156  
 
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I am always astonished by these 'Armchair CEO' threads - especially when they seek to set out rules for changes that haven't happened or are even particularly certain yet. Moreover, it's BA's airline and what they accept as payment for an F ticket, whether it be cash, Avios or Green Shield stamps is, frankly, a matter for them.

IF, however, there is going to be a need for stricter criteria for admission as a passenger to the smaller First Class cabins of the future, then such criteria need to be objective, fair, non-snobbish and commercially viable. I can, in a spirit of disinterested fairness, suggest the following guidelines might be appropriate for British customers wishing to travel F (BA would obviously have to adapt these for those from other jurisdictions):

1. Flying F should obviously be a graduate privilege but BA should be open about degree class or subject. A qualification from either of the universities should suffice;
2. F passengers should live somewhere appropriate. The obvious option would be to require an address in London and the Home Counties, but this would be a little crude in that it would exclude Edinburgh but permit Romford, for example. Perhaps the Office for National Statistics could be persuaded to publish ratios of ciabatta to sausage roll sales on a geographical basis and these could be used;
3. It would obviously be necessary to exclude lottery winners, reality TV stars and other members of the nouveau riche, so customers should be required, at the time of booking, to furnish a copy of Daddy's entry in Debretts/Who's Who or the Army or Royal Navy Officer Lists. In 50 years or so, once the service has established itself, an officer career in the RAF might also be accepted;
4. As a final precaution, when priority boarding is called, those holding F boarding passes should be presented with a bowl of peas and a knife and fork. A few seats should be reserved at the back of the 'plane for anyone committing the ultimate social faux pas, and therefore needing to be downgraded, at this stage.

Apart from a few simple and fair guidelines, such as those suggested, F travel should be open to everyone who is willing to pay the price - using whatever form of payment BA chooses to accept.
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Old Mar 3, 19, 6:17 am
  #157  
 
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Benj View Post

I very much suspect 95% of people donít care in the slightest, esp in this day and age, when the out dated concepts of class etc have all but evaporated.

I think peole will judge you far more on how you act and treat others than how you look, or what youíve paid for your fare

There will no doubt be the 5% of snobs, who will judge otherwise, you and the rest of the 95% will have likely by then judged them as nobs by that point already though!
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Old Mar 3, 19, 8:10 am
  #158  
 
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Cutting through some of the verbiage on this thread it seems, perhaps, that the thought is "fewer seats mean higher prices and a more exclusive cabin atmosphere". My own very limited experience of a couple of BA F flights per year for about 10 years before moving to LH and finally to AF was that the fares I paid (own pocket) for the latter were very similar to those which I paid to BA. Where there was a small difference - approx £250ish TATL - I enjoyed the Porsche at Frankfurt or the BMW/Jaguar CDG from airbridge to wonderful lounge to airbridge and thought it great value for money. So am not sure a smaller BA cabin would have to price it out of the market as the new AF cabin with 4 seats and the LH 8 seats seem to be able to come into play without breaking my limited bank. Whether that meant cutting BA profits though.... perhaps it wouldn't fly after all.
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Old Mar 3, 19, 8:39 am
  #159  
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Originally Posted by CCayley
2. F passengers should live somewhere appropriate. <snip>

3. <snip> or the Army or Royal Navy Officer Lists. In 50 years or so, once the service has established itself, an officer career in the RAF might also be accepted;
I trust Jersey is deemed an appropriate postcode?

As for your point 3., I refrain from comment!

Otherwise, I broadly support your frivolous proposal!
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Old Mar 3, 19, 10:04 am
  #160  
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Originally Posted by lloydah View Post
So am not sure a smaller BA cabin would have to price it out of the market as the new AF cabin with 4 seats and the LH 8 seats seem to be able to come into play without breaking my limited bank.
I'm sure that cash fares will continue to be subject to the market discipline of having to compete with similar airlines that offer F, so the disparity may continue to be small. But what BA can do with a smaller F cabin on fewer routes is to have fewer F seats used by awards, redemption upgrades, instrument (eg GUF) upgrades, and op-ups. This seems likely to push F yields up, even if cash fares stay the same. And if yields go up, then there may be more money to provide a better F service to each of the remaining F passengers - as well as a different batch of FT complaints about F.
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Old Mar 3, 19, 12:35 pm
  #161  
 
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Originally Posted by Retron View Post
It must be a magic sense!
I've been lucky enough to fly F (and yes, despite what some would say it's always been a good jump above J) several times. Sometimes via Tesco/Amex/Topcashback/Holiday Inn-generated Avios, sometimes as an "instant upgrade" J cash fare and sometimes as a cash A fare. I've not yet flown on a full-price F fare, but in all cases I've done the same things, worn the same clothes and carried the same luggage. There's no way on earth you could tell whether I was flying on an F, A or Z fare... unless, of course, you've sneaked a peek at the crew's manifest!
Originally Posted by T8191 View Post
I sometimes wonder how others see me when I’m sitting in Row 1, or boarding in Group 1, or relaxing in the FLounge. What? A 70+ yo in Cargos and Trainers, with a bright yellow backpack?

“Surely he should be in the back row of Economy? “
“He must be a TESCO Tourist.”

How would anyone know I’ve paid cash for my seat, as I do every time except for the annual 2-4-1?
Both you need to be on your best behavior ! Otherwise someone here may take a dislike to you and look at you sideways. Also get your 2-4-1 booked out ]before you are banished from the pure cabins.
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Old Mar 3, 19, 1:04 pm
  #162  
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Dear HMPS, I always shave in the morning, unlike most of my fellow male pax. Does that help my credibility?
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Old Mar 3, 19, 2:13 pm
  #163  
 
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Originally Posted by T8191 View Post
How would anyone know Iíve paid cash for my seat, as I do every time except for the annual 2-4-1?
Quite simple T8191 - you just attach a label to your backpack alongside your FT yellow tag saying ďI paid cash for my ticketĒ
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Old Mar 3, 19, 2:17 pm
  #164  
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Originally Posted by T8191 View Post
Dear HMPS, I always shave in the morning, unlike most of my fellow male pax. Does that help my credibility?
Why only Male? This is 2019, you need to go on some inclusively training mate
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Old Mar 3, 19, 2:45 pm
  #165  
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA View Post
Why only Male? This is 2019, you need to go on some inclusively training mate
for A moment I thought you were travelling with a lot of maldivians...
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