FlyerTalker688786

BA should open a new class called Premium Europe to replace the current Club Europe. So Premium Europe could occupy the front rows of Euro traveller and have a proper meal service but on one tray. The current Club Europe name should be used on a proper first class and full fare business class product and use the 2-2 proper seating.

So on one A321, you could have a Club Europe that seats 20 and only open for first class and full fare business class passengers. Then you can have Premium Europe occupy upto 10 rows of 3-3 but 32 inched of legroom with a single tray of gourmet food that opens for other business class passengers and World Traveller Plus transit passenger booked in full fare. Then you have the minimum 18 rows of Euro Traveller cabin for all other pax.

I think at some stage BA must change to meet the demand of the market. The current 2 class Europe travel is inadequate for people who dishes out thousand of pounds to travel long haul first or full fate business class on them. A newly designed 3 class service can retain the flexibility while look after the most premium pax.

gw76

corporate-wage-slave

IAG gets 15% Gross Margin, 15% Return on Invested Capital in an industry where it is said that to become a rich man in aviation you have start as a very rich man. Very few airline groups of its type can pump out year-on-year results of that calibre. The entire demand of the market, as far as I can tell, still hinges on pretty tough competition with relentless focus on fares generally going downwards, more people on the same aircraft, 48 people in CE to HEL. Sir Freddie Laker's Skytrain fares in today's money would be £700 for New York, BA does it for £275, and I see zero evidence or clamour for the return of higher fares along the lines you suggest.

The model you present would definitely and immediately be adopted by BA the moment it became clear that this really was going to make money. Why? Because IAG loves making profits. Over in the real world it seems to have discovered that an entirely different, almost opposite strategy is what is filling up its aircraft at the same time as filling up its bank account.

FlyerTalker688786

well I was not mentioning fares at all. I only said they should do more for full fare first and business class passengers. So why be so defensive by talking fares? Where in my post mentioned fares?

of course what I think BA should do is a matter of my personal opinion. There is no need to lecture me on how BA would not make money in that scenario or how much money BA is making currently. I am always open for a different opinion but not lectures. If we can make decision on BAs behalve we would not discuss our own opinion in this public forum.

so please be easy.

there are too much capacity across the Atlantic in winter time. And I know it because I have first hand data which I can not disclose. But let us say at this moment many aircrafts have at least 120 empty seats in the back daily flying between US and UK. BA's high margin is partly due to its carriers surcharge strategy as well as the aircraft sale and lease programme. But both tricks can only take BA so far. BA has a chunk of B744 needs to be replaced soon. Its margin won't last forever.

and I believe that in a very short time, BA will need to reassess its strategy as many good business would do. And I have no doubt neither you nor me could change anything at all. So please don't spoil the moment that we can freely change ideas without been lectured on. Thank you.

corporate-wage-slave

You should have seen the bits I self edited out of my initial reply! This isn't a lecture, it's just my point of view, I think I'm entitled to one too. Your views too are most interesting, and you cite market demand as the core of your viewpoint, but it's not unreasonable to challenge that argument.. It's also not unreasonable to challenge my views.

FlyerTalker688786

I guess I must have missed it by few seconds! I am sorry for sounding too defensive. Always happy to exchange ideas. Please accept my apologies if I sounded like I was offended. I was just doing a 'please, not lectures...' junior moment (well you know senior moment, now you know there is a junior moment too). You are always welcome to give your ideas and critics. Anyone is welcome in fact.

KARFA

It is not even just a BA or IAG issue. Whenever European short haul J seating is discussed the suggestion is that there is some untapped demand for a better business cabin or some kind of super J cabin. However, apart from a very few exceptions (e.g TK on some flights to LHR), no European short haul carrier offers it. It's difficult to conclude that every airline is missing a opportunity here, perhaps all who have looked at it have concluded it wouldn't increase profits?

From my own pov I am relatively happy with the BA CE offering, especially now with the improved catering we have seen on the domestic and shorter routes.

Here is one of the more recent threads discussing seats Club Europe Seats

GlasgowCyclops

I'm 56 and I've never woried about getting into CE :-)

FlyerTalker39574

KARFA

An opportunity for richardwftAir then?

simons1

I can't see it happening personally. If there was a market for it one of the European carriers would have made a break for now, the fact that no-one has says all we need to know.

European travel is all about optimising the airline's profits and flexibility. That is why we now have all-economy seating, so that the curtain can be moved at the drop of a hat. If you created a 20 seat cabin with 2x2 seating and then only get 10 full fare bookings clearly it doesn't stack up as you end up with cheap upgrades and the like to fill the seats.

Also a 3 class service on short haul routes sounds like a recipe for disaster operationally, for example managing different catering structures with the curtain moving up to the last minute. The model these days is about keeping it simple, not making it complicated.

SpeedbirdLHR

I think that the people doing the people looking at things as you put it are doing their job thoroughly and reaching the appropriate conclusions hence why we are seeing full cabins and in recent years the introduction of Club Europe on domestic services. This was something that for a long time many thought wouldn't work as it reduces capacity and therefore was a question of maintaining the income versus the reduced seating capacity by removal of 2 seats per row. Clearly they judged that it was the right time for it, leading to the introduction on domestic flights.

FlyerTalker39574

FlyerTalker39574

madfish