Club Europe Seats

Old Dec 8, 18, 2:34 pm
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Club Europe Seats

Comparing BA short haul with AA short haul and I could see why BA's setup gives them a lot more flexibility over no changeable seats however I wondered how often the 'curtain' would move forward and backwards on any given aircraft to warrant non fixed, bigger seats?

Anyone got any info?
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Old Dec 8, 18, 2:40 pm
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It moves frequently from 3 rows to 15 (Amsterdam 6am commuter service).

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Old Dec 8, 18, 2:41 pm
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On most aircraft it will be moved between every flight.
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Old Dec 8, 18, 3:09 pm
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My record, on one NCL-LHR sector, was 14 curtain moves in 4 days, 5 of them in a single two hour slot. It ended up just 1 row behind where it started.
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Old Dec 8, 18, 3:29 pm
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Originally Posted by eugegall View Post
Comparing BA short haul with AA short haul and I could see why BA's setup gives them a lot more flexibility over no changeable seats however I wondered how often the 'curtain' would move forward and backwards on any given aircraft to warrant non fixed, bigger seats?

Anyone got any info?
The flexibility is huge. It stops having two separate fleets with more or less seats. Some routes have just three rows (12 business seats) but other popular routes can be the full 14 rows (56 business seats). Having that variation with a fleet of set configuration wouldn't be possible.

As for the "curtain" it moves a lot as bookings for the flight but physically it probably moves after almost every flight as loads are always different and the planes go all over the network from premium heavy to leisure heavy routes.
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Old Dec 8, 18, 5:45 pm
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I understand how it gives flexibility, but it doesn't make it a premium product when you're sitting in the same seats a Y. How does Qantas manage to do it domestically with their fixed J section?
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Old Dec 8, 18, 5:51 pm
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Originally Posted by dddc View Post
I understand how it gives flexibility, but it doesn't make it a premium product when you're sitting in the same seats a Y. How does Qantas manage to do it domestically with their fixed J section?
Sure it's not a "premium" product in relation to your example or to the US domestic airlines but it seems to be the standard for the front cabin in Europe now based upon the competion.
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Maybe they can do it because they are flying domestically in Australia and not in Europe and there are different and more competitors in Europe.

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Old Dec 8, 18, 6:00 pm
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Originally Posted by dddc View Post
I understand how it gives flexibility, but it doesn't make it a premium product when you're sitting in the same seats a Y. How does Qantas manage to do it domestically with their fixed J section?
Australian domestic J is generally a lot more expensive than an equivalent intra-Europe J ticket.
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Old Dec 8, 18, 6:54 pm
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Originally Posted by fruitcage View Post


Australian domestic J is generally a lot more expensive than an equivalent intra-Europe J ticket.
just done a BNE-SYD flight in J with QF. It was QF551 at 17:35 (1h35 flight duration) which had a refreshment service. Was not expecting much after checking the QF forum but was amazed by the service. Had a hot meal with a desert: steak with spinash and baked potatoes, lemon tart and the best bread I have ever eaten on a plane. The guy manning J class was perfect. I was in row 1 and he introduced himself to me and called me by my surname (I am BA Gold). He did that only to another passenger who must have been another FF. I never get that on BA whether in Y or J. The seats were wide with great legroom, foot rests and adjustable recline and back rest. Drinks kept on being offered throughout the flight.

Now I do understand the markets are different but BA could introduce a different seat for J class in Europe up to row 3 and then have then create a new Premium Economy class that is exactly the same as todayís business (meal and blocked middle seat). That way they have maximum flexibility and it woulf allow them to satisfy those customers that want a real business class configuration.
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Old Dec 8, 18, 6:58 pm
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You can't really compare hard and soft products without considering price. CE is typical intra-European premium cabin. I suppose that if someone showed up and offered 2-2 rather than 3-3 with a middle seat blocked for the same price and same convenience, people would flock to it. But, that isn't on the horizon.
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Old Dec 8, 18, 7:10 pm
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Originally Posted by BA6948 View Post



just done a BNE-SYD flight in J with QF. It was QF551 at 17:35 (1h35 flight duration) which had a refreshment service. Was not expecting much after checking the QF forum but was amazed by the service. Had a hot meal with a desert: steak with spinash and baked potatoes, lemon tart and the best bread I have ever eaten on a plane. The guy manning J class was perfect. I was in row 1 and he introduced himself to me and called me by my surname (I am BA Gold). He did that only to another passenger who must have been another FF. I never get that on BA whether in Y or J. The seats were wide with great legroom, foot rests and adjustable recline and back rest. Drinks kept on being offered throughout the flight.

Now I do understand the markets are different but BA could introduce a different seat for J class in Europe up to row 3 and then have then create a new Premium Economy class that is exactly the same as todayís business (meal and blocked middle seat). That way they have maximum flexibility and it woulf allow them to satisfy those customers that want a real business class configuration.
Your experience sounds great. What is the normal business class fare between BNE and SYD? (Genuine question)

As much as some FTers might wish, I think itís pretty clear that there isnít a viable market for a Ďproper Jí cabin within Europe. Unless the vast majority of European airline professionals are completely wrong.

Last edited by krispy84; Dec 8, 18 at 7:56 pm
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Old Dec 8, 18, 8:13 pm
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Originally Posted by fruitcage View Post
Australian domestic J is generally a lot more expensive than an equivalent intra-Europe J ticket.
While absolutely true, I think this is actually a minor reason. I suspect much more influential is the fact that a majority of BA short haul traffic is connecting to/from long haul whilst I suspect that near 90% of QF domestic traffic is wholly domestic (whether point to point or connecting to another domestic). Short haul C on ba is largely an upsale which is fine but I suspect still a secondary consideration except for a dozen or so routes with high o/d premium traffic.
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Old Dec 8, 18, 9:29 pm
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Originally Posted by BA6948 View Post
Now I do understand the markets are different but BA could introduce a different seat for J class in Europe up to row 3 and then have then create a new Premium Economy class that is exactly the same as todayís business (meal and blocked middle seat). That way they have maximum flexibility and it would allow them to satisfy those customers that want a real business class configuration.
Lufthansa did this in the early 90's and it didn't work out for them. Fixed 2x2 seating in the first 2-3 rows of their European fleet called First Class then Euro style 3x3 seating designated as Business and Economy with a moveable divider.
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Old Dec 9, 18, 2:28 am
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Originally Posted by charlieboy77 View Post
Lufthansa did this in the early 90's and it didn't work out for them. Fixed 2x2 seating in the first 2-3 rows of their European fleet called First Class then Euro style 3x3 seating designated as Business and Economy with a moveable divider.
Back in those days the LH 2x2 seating was first class and it did used to sell well. It wasn't new in the 1990s, I can remember it from the 1960s on 727s. The decision was to remove first because it did stop selling sufficiently well.
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Old Dec 9, 18, 3:37 am
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Originally Posted by krispy84 View Post


Your experience sounds great. What is the normal business class fare between BNE and SYD? (Genuine question)

As much as some FTers might wish, I think itís pretty clear that there isnít a viable market for a Ďproper Jí cabin within Europe. Unless the vast majority of European airline professionals are completely wrong.
incredibly expensive at circa £500. But equally amazing value using Avios. I did the exact same route earlier this year (on the long haul a330) and had equally good service. Cost was £10 + 9000 Avios. My best value redemption ever.
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