BA16 SYD-LHR 2 Dec, delayed overnight
Dec 2, 2018, 11:46 pm
#31
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The cancelled flight operates on an EU carrier between two countries outside the EU. What remains to be seen and is yet undecided is whether either UK or EU courts (ultimately) determine that the same principle which would apply in the other direction, e.g. LHR-SIN-SYD, would apply for SYD-SIN-LHR where the delay into LHR exeeds 3 or 4 hours as the case may be.
So passengers ticketed on the BA16 from SYD-LHR would be covered by EC261; passengers ticketed on the BA16 from SYD-SIN would not be covered. Correct?
Dec 3, 2018, 12:25 am
#33
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Gosh not sure I am ever going to be game to starr a BA thread again. Doing this flight a few times next year hence interest i reroutes too, F if that makes a difference
Dec 3, 2018, 2:42 am
#34
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It would be an interesting case. BA would inevitably (perhaps not unreasonably) take the narrow argument that SIN-SYD is outside the scope of EC261.
The passenger might however argue that they had paid for a trip from LHR-SYD on one ticket which was delayed by failure of BA equipment and who knows the courts might back the consumer.
With €600 at stake it might be worth a punt, or at least a call to Bott & Co.
The passenger might however argue that they had paid for a trip from LHR-SYD on one ticket which was delayed by failure of BA equipment and who knows the courts might back the consumer.
With €600 at stake it might be worth a punt, or at least a call to Bott & Co.
Dec 3, 2018, 2:48 am
#35
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Dec 3, 2018, 3:53 am
#36
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they only do one night there as part of a ten day trip someone told me recently !
Dec 3, 2018, 4:35 am
#38
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That is not so clear cut, but there is there is an arguable case and given how the courts tend to lean toward the consumer when interpreting this Regulation it wouldn't surprise me if this one succeeded given it is the same (EU) carrier for both sectors.
Dec 3, 2018, 5:08 am
#39
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I think the argument being made was that if people were connecting to the BA12 from BA16 they wouldn't be entitled to EU261, as its not an intra-EU flight. Passengers continuing on BA16 to London would be entitled. The (rare) case of 5th freedom flights operated by EU airlines hasn't been specifically legislated for.
Dec 3, 2018, 5:40 am
#40
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I think the argument being made was that if people were connecting to the BA12 from BA16 they wouldn't be entitled to EU261, as its not an intra-EU flight. Passengers continuing on BA16 to London would be entitled. The (rare) case of 5th freedom flights operated by EU airlines hasn't been specifically legislated for.
Dec 3, 2018, 8:46 am
#41
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I think the argument being made was that if people were connecting to the BA12 from BA16 they wouldn't be entitled to EU261, as its not an intra-EU flight. Passengers continuing on BA16 to London would be entitled. The (rare) case of 5th freedom flights operated by EU airlines hasn't been specifically legislated for.
I believe there is a reasonable likelihood (but not a certainty) that if taken to MCOL passengers connecting from SYD to LHR will find favour with a judge by arguing that their delayed arrival in LHR on a single ticket is a direct consequence of a failure by an EU carrier.
If the flight was from SYD to SIN only that would be different.
Not every scenario is specifically legislated for, but that doesn't stop a judge using their judgement.
Dec 3, 2018, 9:21 am
#42
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If I was caught up in this scenario I would claim under 261. There's a good chance that BA would react a claim, maybe not because the flight operates between two non-EU territories, but rather because a butterfly flapped their wings on the M4, which caused a unicorn to fly over T5. The unicorn's horn fell off on the 777 parked in Sydney. Obviously those are freak events and therefore no 261. Simple!
Dec 3, 2018, 9:22 am
#43
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Yes I'm aware of the argument being made, I just don't agree with it.
I believe there is a reasonable likelihood (but not a certainty) that if taken to MCOL passengers connecting from SYD to LHR will find favour with a judge by arguing that their delayed arrival in LHR on a single ticket is a direct consequence of a failure by an EU carrier.
If the flight was from SYD to SIN only that would be different.
Not every scenario is specifically legislated for, but that doesn't stop a judge using their judgement.
SYD-SIN is not covered by the regulation. That said I believe I read before on the forum that BA does still apply the compensation rules on these 5th freedom flights?
SYD-SIN-LHR would be covered. As Long as it is booked on one PNR no matter if you connect to another BA flight in Singapore. The arrival delay in LHR would be the data point of your total journey. It would be the similar to the issue that EK faced about total end to end delays rather than only the EU departing sector.
It would also be similar to the notion of flying BA connecting to a BA code share. The code share flight is not departing or arriving in the EU but still part of your end to end journey as per your ticket.
Globalist
Dec 4, 2018, 11:52 pm
#44
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I'm mildly curious too - loads of OW options SYD-LHR that go out after the BA flight (QF, CX, QR, MH) plus the usual Middle East & Asian carriers. The original BA aircraft still needs to come back though, so I suspect it would be cheaper to put everyone in a hotel for the night. You'd hope F/J/Golds got looked after if they needed to travel that day.