Window shades night flights (sun up)

Old Jun 1, 17, 12:39 pm
  #61  
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
... I'm not afraid to politely ask to lower the blinds if the glare is really hurting my eyes and I really don't want to sit there with my eyes closed or with eye shades on for hours or can't see the screen for glare (e.g. I need to work). If they oblige, good. If not, I'd happily live with it as it's their prerogative. So far, no-one's ever refused my polite request though. I always start with an apology for even asking them to do something for my own benefit and say I won't be at all offended if they said 'no' because it's their right to keep it open...
I've been asked several times (most often on AA B777s) to close blinds because the light was shining in another passengers eye or the light was causing a screen glare on the IFE. In those circumstances I'd have no hesitation in closing the blind. I will always respond positively to polite requests.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 12:48 pm
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Originally Posted by madfish View Post
Reclining your seat has s clear detrimental impact on the person behind who can do little about it to improve their own comfort. As pointed out, if you want darkness, wear eyeshades. This is an easy soloution to improve own comfort levels if the light bothers you so much.
And there is a clear detrimental impact on the rest of the cabin to having your shade open on a night flight going east. Some people may try to deny that, or make all sorts of justifications for ignoring it because doing something about it upsets them, but you are asked to lower your shade for the same reason you are asked to raise your seat - to improve others' comfort.

You can't pick and choose which bits of social ettiquette matter according to your own preferences, that's not how it works.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 12:58 pm
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
I'm one of those annoying hermits who keeps the shades closed as long as possible because my eyes are rather light-sensitive and they often plain hurt if there is any glare etc.

However, if someone looks like they're struggling to read a physical book nearby and no-one around me is sleeping, I'd offer to open it.

As far as I'm concerned I'm in a shared space so I'd try to fit in with other people's needs when I can do so without causing myself a silly amount of inconvenience.

I'm not afraid to politely ask to lower the blinds if the glare is really hurting my eyes and I really don't want to sit there with my eyes closed or with eye shades on for hours or can't see the screen for glare (e.g. I need to work). If they oblige, good. If not, I'd happily live with it as it's their prerogative. So far, no-one's ever refused my polite request though. I always start with an apology for even asking them to do something for my own benefit and say I won't be at all offended if they said 'no' because it's their right to keep it open...

I'd say that's up there with the most resonable posts I've read in the subject!

It'll sound really stupid but when flying through turbulence (of which I am not a fan) I find looking out of the window helps calm my nerves. So I try to keep the blind open as much as possible. I also never tire of glazing out at the world!
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Old Jun 1, 17, 12:58 pm
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
Oh dear. So much assumption there about me - you hve certainly painted a very interesting and colourful picture of my behaviour despite never meeting me, and despite me actually never expressing what I do in terms of lowering my window shade or reclining my seat.

Never mind, better luck next time
Huh, what assumptions did I make? I would say they started with your assumption that I don't know what a democracy is.

I didn't actually assume any behaviour except with regards to the window shade; I assumed your opinion reflects your own behaviour, but I may be wrong I guess. If you consider raising a window shade 'colourful behaviour' well, you've lived a quiet life!

As for the seat recline, err, please read what I wrote again, I was asking the question actually because I assume you do raise your seat like any reasonable person, to invite comparison with behaviour with the window for those who think sitting in the window gives you abslute control.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 12:59 pm
  #65  
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Originally Posted by nallison View Post
And there is a clear detrimental impact on the rest of the cabin to having your shade open on a night flight going east. Some people may try to deny that, or make all sorts of justifications for ignoring it because doing something about it upsets them, but you are asked to lower your shade for the same reason you are asked to raise your seat - to improve others' comfort.

You can't pick and choose which bits of social ettiquette matter according to your own preferences, that's not how it works.
You really aren't listening, are you? As pointed out numerous times if people want darkness wear the eyeshades. That easily solves the problem. I very much doubt every person in the cabin wants to sleep bar one. Why should everybody be kept in darkness to satisfy those who want it that way? It goes both ways especially as those people who want darkness have a simple remedy at hand.

As for those who use arguments about it being public transport and we should do what is requested by some other passengers, don't forget many forms of public transport have little or no way of shielding the windows, and generally these are much bigger windows.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 1:05 pm
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Originally Posted by madfish View Post
I very much doubt every person in the cabin wants to sleep bar one.
I've been the only person awake in F very, very frequently. It probably happens in 4 out of 5 flights at some stage of the flight in F.*

I do not even turn my personal light on if anyone around me is asleep though (I am rather hyper-sensitive to other people's in-flight sleep requirement and I consider myself having committed a horrific sin if I end up waking someone in flight for whatever reason), let alone opening the window shade.


*I can sleep on planes and I sleep rather well, but I don't tend to sleep the hours that most normal human being sleep

Last edited by LTN Phobia; Jun 1, 17 at 1:20 pm
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Old Jun 1, 17, 1:09 pm
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Originally Posted by madfish View Post
You really aren't listening, are you? As pointed out numerous times if people want darkness wear the eyeshades. That easily solves the problem. I very much doubt every person in the cabin wants to sleep bar one. Why should everybody be kept in darkness to satisfy those who want it that way? It goes both ways especially as those people who want darkness have a simple remedy at hand.

As for those who use arguments about it being public transport and we should do what is requested by some other passengers, don't forget many forms of public transport have little or no way of shielding the windows, and generally these are much bigger windows.
I am listenning perfectly well, I've heard that argument, I don't accept it. Rather arrogant to assume I don't agree with you just because I'm not listenning, your argument isn't that good! And that's why crew ask people to lower windshades, so perhaps you should listen and observe where society had decided the middle ground is?

Other forms of transport are irrelevant, planes do have shades, and after over half a century of transporting passengers, airlines have enough data to conclude that the majority of passengers would prefer to avoid the sun rising at a ridiculous hour and blinding the cabin. If you refuse to go along with that, just accept that you are in the minority and choosing to be a bother. Admit that and knock yourself out, but don't pretend you're not doing anything selfish.

And for the third time, as I said I actually prefer window seats and looking out of the window and would prefer to keep it open, I just lower it out of common decency and really don't understand why that's such a problem for some. I am well aware how much light comes in and would frankly be embarrassed having my window open when the others are closed.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 1:12 pm
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
I've been the only person awake in F very, very frequently. It probably happens in 4 out of 5 flights at some stage of the flight in F.

I do not even turn my personal light on if anyone around me is asleep though (I am rather hyper-sensitive to other people's in-flight sleep requirement and I consider myself having committed a horrific sin if I end up waking someone in flight for whatever reason), let alone opening the window shade.
I agree, even in economy, as someone who can't really sleep on planes I'm often astonished when I get up and walk around to see that the majority are sound asleep. Leaves more wine for me I guess (well maybe not on BA as they've probably run out)
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Old Jun 1, 17, 1:23 pm
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Originally Posted by nallison View Post
I am listenning perfectly well, I've heard that argument, I don't accept it. Rather arrogant to assume I don't agree with you just because I'm not listenning, your argument isn't that good! And that's why crew ask people to lower windshades, so perhaps you should listen and observe where society had decided the middle ground is?

Other forms of transport are irrelevant, planes do have shades, and after over half a century of transporting passengers, airlines have enough data to conclude that the majority of passengers would prefer to avoid the sun rising at a ridiculous hour and blinding the cabin. If you refuse to go along with that, just accept that you are in the minority and choosing to be a bother. Admit that and knock yourself out, but don't pretend you're not doing anything selfish.

And for the third time, as I said I actually prefer window seats and looking out of the window and would prefer to keep it open, I just lower it out of common decency and really don't understand why that's such a problem for some. I am well aware how much light comes in and would frankly be embarrassed having my window open when the others are closed.
You really do need to get over yourself. The point has been made numerous times but it is clear that you have not listened to what numerous people have said about the ability to wear eyeshades. If you had then you would see that this is perfectly reasonable as a means of stopping what may be a problem for some. Making everybody sit in darkness does not make it better for everybody.

As for comments about what airlines do or don't do, you seem to have ignored the point that BA don't enforce this. (Perhaps you should go back and read from the beginning?) Why is this? Doesn't seem to fit with your argument, does it?

Others have made reference to public transport, my point is in relation to that as an example. Perhaps it is as relevant as your example of reclining sears. This does have a clear detrimental impact on other passengers that cannot be easily mitigated unlike wearing eyeshades.

As as previously pointed out to you by another poster when you tried to make dubious comments about their actions, I don't recall actually stating what I have done in the past or would do in the future with regard to this issue. You seem to be making a number of assumptions, whilst calling people arrogant if implying that they are DYKWIA types.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 1:26 pm
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
I've been the only person awake in F very, very frequently. It probably happens in 4 out of 5 flights at some stage of the flight in F.*

I do not even turn my personal light on if anyone around me is asleep though (I am rather hyper-sensitive to other people's in-flight sleep requirement and I consider myself having committed a horrific sin if I end up waking someone in flight for whatever reason), let alone opening the window shade.


*I can sleep on planes and I sleep rather well, but I don't tend to sleep the hours that most normal human being sleep
A fair point based I am sure on lots of personal experience. Given the size of the cabin this is more likely than in other cabins. Would you say your fellow travellers or willing sleepers are feel coerced into sleep by the lack of light?

Also, based on your experience, how does this differ with flight departure time and duration?
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Old Jun 1, 17, 1:35 pm
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Originally Posted by madfish View Post
A fair point based I am sure on lots of personal experience. Given the size of the cabin this is more likely than in other cabins. Would you say your fellow travellers or willing sleepers are feel coerced into sleep by the lack of light?
You're right about the size of the cabin.

I'd say they are mostly willing sleepers. A lot of them decline food, have the bed made as soon as possible and seem to want to sleep as long as they can. That suggests to me they genuinely want to sleep.

Those who can't sleep tend to watch things rather than trying to sleep from what I've seen.

I tend to fall asleep before take-off Quite often I wake up an hour later and find a lot of people asleep even before the meal service.

Also, based on your experience, how does this differ with flight departure time and duration?
I haven't experienced a big range of routes (my routes tend to be boringly repetitive) but the more solo travellers who seem to be travelling on business there are, the more 'sleepers' there tend to be on the flight. It makes sense because a lot of people would be needing to work upon arrival if the are travelling on business, and I am guessing that there is also no novelty value of F for a lot of those travellers either.

On some flights pretty much everyone declines food and go to sleep and that's not even limited to what you could officially call a 'night flight'.

I guess with long haul that crosses many time zones, it's a bit hard to practically define what constitutes a night flight, e.g. LHR-HND that arrives the next morning even though it departs LHR during daylight hours. If you don't sleep on that flight just because you departed during the day and you land during daylight hours, you'd have a very long day.

To me, the whole thing is pretty simple. I wouldn't impose my needs on someone if it's reasonably avoidable but I'd prefer to see if I can do something to consider theirs. It makes me feel more at peace with myself. I commit enough sins like gluttony to go to hell, if I don't consider others a bit, I'd be going to hell 10,000 times

Last edited by LTN Phobia; Jun 1, 17 at 1:50 pm
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Old Jun 1, 17, 1:44 pm
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Originally Posted by madfish View Post
You really do need to get over yourself. The point has been made numerous times but it is clear that you have not listened to what numerous people have said about the ability to wear eyeshades. If you had then you would see that this is perfectly reasonable as a means of stopping what may be a problem for some. Making everybody sit in darkness does not make it better for everybody.

As for comments about what airlines do or don't do, you seem to have ignored the point that BA don't enforce this. (Perhaps you should go back and read from the beginning?) Why is this? Doesn't seem to fit with your argument, does it?

Others have made reference to public transport, my point is in relation to that as an example. Perhaps it is as relevant as your example of reclining sears. This does have a clear detrimental impact on other passengers that cannot be easily mitigated unlike wearing eyeshades.

As as previously pointed out to you by another poster when you tried to make dubious comments about their actions, I don't recall actually stating what I have done in the past or would do in the future with regard to this issue. You seem to be making a number of assumptions, whilst calling people arrogant if implying that they are DYKWIA types.
Get over myself? As I said I am not trying to sleep or complaining about darkness. This is the 4th time I've said this. Please follow your own advice and read the thread.

As I said, I lower my window because it is plainly obvious that that is what the majority prefer, even though I'd prefer to have it open. Is that clear enough? I am not arguing for my own selfish need so get angry with someone else.

I have heard your eyeshade argument. I have listenned. I disagee Ok? You are not revealing some incredible previously unknown truth that will persuade all that you are right. Plenty of people find eyeshades uncomfortable to wear, I have tried several because if I sleep in a place with bad curtains the light wakes me. And of course airlines don't give them out in the rear cabins. So no, that is not the solution.

The solution is the one airlines are already in general going for. BA may not strictly enforce it to avoid confrontation, but the fact they ask shows what they would prefer and what the social norm is. If someone makes a request to me out of consideration for others, I'm going to go along with it. And I imagine 95% of people respond positively when asked.

it is only your opinion that this is different to seat recline because I assume one matters to you and one doesn't. The reality is that airlines consider both important enough to have a general code of conduct that cabin crew try to encourage people to go along with.

Ok no more assumptions, I'll be clear what I mean. I think if you refuse a crew request to lower your shade out of consideration for others, yes that is arrogant and fairly DYKWIA. Maybe you don't do that, though then I'm not sure why we're debating if actually you go along with something you have said you don't need to go along with?

Last edited by nallison; Jun 1, 17 at 1:54 pm
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Old Jun 1, 17, 1:46 pm
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Originally Posted by PJSMITH0 View Post
What is the general consensus of having your window blind raised on an overnight flight. Having just traveled in F from SIN to LHR travelling in the middle pair the passenger in the adjacent window seat decided to be on his lap top all night with his window shade raised. Approx 4 hours into the flight which took off late at 00.30 we caught the sun up and it filled our part of the cabin with sunlight. The cabin crew did ask but the passenger to lower his shade but he merely dropped it a couple on inches. I found this to be a very selfish act when he could of simply used the shoulder light.
Not a consensus, but I fully agree he is a selfish person. By definition, selfish people think only of themselves and don't give a hoot about others and their comfort.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 1:53 pm
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Originally Posted by mapleg View Post
Not a consensus, but I fully agree he is a selfish person. By definition, selfish people think only of themselves and don't give a hoot about others and their comfort.
Indeed, some are aware enough of themselves and their surroundings that they don't even need to be asked. Others will refuse even when they are asked because apparently they are special and don't need to go along with the same social norms everyone else is already following.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 2:07 pm
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Originally Posted by nallison View Post

Ok no more assumptions, I'll be clear what I mean. I think if you refuse a crew request to lower your shade out of consideration for others, yes that is arrogant and fairly DYKWIA. Maybe you don't do that, though then I'm not sure why we're debating if actually you go along with something you have said you don't need to go along with?
You said this already and I suggested that we have been told by the cc that they have to go through the motions of asking if another passenger asks - but you are perfectly ok in saying no. I am still unsure why you see this as DYKWIA behaviour though.
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