A Few Takeaways From Last Night's [27 March 2017] GGL Event
Mar 31, 2017, 10:49 am
#106
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,367
It's also relevant because clearly there is some embedded value for BA. Whether or not you believe airlines own the slots is academic, as they are being purchased and sold this very week and whether the buyer is buying a right, or a slot is largely semantics, as airlines typically don't spend £75m on something unless they believe it is of value to them.
Talking of ownership of slots is, at heart, shorthand that makes it easier for non-lawyers to apprehend the notion that slots are transferable for value. That transferability is a reflection of the bundle of rights attaching to slots under the regime established by regulation 95/93. But these rights could change to make transferability easier or more difficult or remove it altogether. You could very well imagine a bidding system or a system comparable to the system of rail franchises, for instance. There is, however, currently no suggestion that such options are being considered, neither at EU level nor at national level.
Mar 31, 2017, 11:00 am
#107
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
No, it is not relevant. Whether you want to put the label "ownership" on the bundle of rights that being the holder of a slot involves changes nothing to the status of these rights. These rights are what they are and it is plain that they could be changed tomorrow by the EU legislator or, after Brexit as far as LHR is concerned, by the UK Parliament by modifying the slot allocation regime. The fact that the regime could be changed and slots taken away from airlines does not mean that they "belong" to the government, or anybody else. It simply is not a question of "ownership" as such.
The bit I embolded is the crux of the matter. You are right that it is academic. That was precisely my point. I have no "belief" as to who owns slots. I understand what people mean when they say that but I also understand that it is an approximation that does not fully reflect how the slot allocation regime works. Of course, slots have value. But slots having value does not equate to them being "property" that can be "owned."
Talking of ownership of slots is, at heart, shorthand that makes it easier for non-lawyers to apprehend the notion that slots are transferable for value. That transferability is a reflection of the bundle of rights attaching to slots under the regime established by regulation 95/93. But these rights could change to make transferability easier or more difficult or remove it altogether. You could very well imagine a bidding system or a system comparable to the system of rail franchises, for instance. There is, however, currently no suggestion that such options are being considered, neither at EU level nor at national level.
The bit I embolded is the crux of the matter. You are right that it is academic. That was precisely my point. I have no "belief" as to who owns slots. I understand what people mean when they say that but I also understand that it is an approximation that does not fully reflect how the slot allocation regime works. Of course, slots have value. But slots having value does not equate to them being "property" that can be "owned."
Talking of ownership of slots is, at heart, shorthand that makes it easier for non-lawyers to apprehend the notion that slots are transferable for value. That transferability is a reflection of the bundle of rights attaching to slots under the regime established by regulation 95/93. But these rights could change to make transferability easier or more difficult or remove it altogether. You could very well imagine a bidding system or a system comparable to the system of rail franchises, for instance. There is, however, currently no suggestion that such options are being considered, neither at EU level nor at national level.
Only that airline balance sheets have embedded value (affecting the share price) and in BA's case a monopoly over slots at Heathrow which creates a potential complacency over whether or not to improve its proposition.
The OP was after all opening a debate over whether BA may or may not improve its offering.
Mar 31, 2017, 11:26 am
#108
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, CX Gold (OW Sapphire), Hilton Gold, SPG Gold, Accor Platinum
Posts: 1,476
I've seen him in two GC T5 lounges, airside at T5, on a MAD flight and at a customer event. I've already seen more of him than his predecessor, partly because Mr. Williams liked to slip off into the background, whereas the current CEO doesn't seem to mind bouncing around in the centre of things.
More over, he doesn't answer any customers on Twitter. If he wants to engage, he can start there.
Mar 31, 2017, 11:53 am
#109
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
You'd have to be mental not to!
LHR-FRA is probably my most frequently flown route (a mix of J and Y). I have not been on a BA flight on this route for over a year.
Let's compare:
LHR T5 v LHR T2: LHR T2 the clear winner, I'm though security in less than five minutes after arriving (new T5 Gold channel may vastly improve T5)
Lounges LHR: GF is good, especially the wine/spirit selection, but I'm perfectly happy with the SEN lounge, actually prefer the breakfast there
FRA T2 v FRA T1: give me a break please, T2 on the return is usually a disaster with the evening flights when you fight at security alongside the Asian flights going out
Lounges FRA: SEN lounge in T1B miles above the JL lounge in T2. Actually I prefer FRA SEN lounges to GF
On board: Prefer the food in LH J to BA CE, in Y there is 'full' service as opposed to that gulag system BA has introduced 'please sir, may I have just a sip of your water'. Much more legroom as well. And no silly yellow tags.
...and LH is almost always cheaper. My last four flights between LHR and Germany have priced out at ca GBP600-750 on BA and GBP280-370 on LH.
LHR-FRA is probably my most frequently flown route (a mix of J and Y). I have not been on a BA flight on this route for over a year.
Let's compare:
LHR T5 v LHR T2: LHR T2 the clear winner, I'm though security in less than five minutes after arriving (new T5 Gold channel may vastly improve T5)
Lounges LHR: GF is good, especially the wine/spirit selection, but I'm perfectly happy with the SEN lounge, actually prefer the breakfast there
FRA T2 v FRA T1: give me a break please, T2 on the return is usually a disaster with the evening flights when you fight at security alongside the Asian flights going out
Lounges FRA: SEN lounge in T1B miles above the JL lounge in T2. Actually I prefer FRA SEN lounges to GF
On board: Prefer the food in LH J to BA CE, in Y there is 'full' service as opposed to that gulag system BA has introduced 'please sir, may I have just a sip of your water'. Much more legroom as well. And no silly yellow tags.
...and LH is almost always cheaper. My last four flights between LHR and Germany have priced out at ca GBP600-750 on BA and GBP280-370 on LH.
Mar 31, 2017, 3:08 pm
#110
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London
Posts: 3,459
Mar 31, 2017, 5:30 pm
#111
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: US/UK - and elsewhere
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 2,563
Well, jolly good for all the high-flyers out there. I would be more than happy to pay for any of the senior managers to accompany me down the back (and I mean down the back) on a long-haul.
Yes, I know, they say it's the people up front who make things profitable - but only if the seats down the back are full... . Loose those Y's and you won't be able to fill the plane with J/F.
(OK - I'll get back in my hole now...).
Yes, I know, they say it's the people up front who make things profitable - but only if the seats down the back are full... . Loose those Y's and you won't be able to fill the plane with J/F.
(OK - I'll get back in my hole now...).