henry999

Need to get some of these people on one of those 'back to the shop floor' type programmes -- although, as long as A ('a new cut every day') C remains in charge, it probably wouldn't have any impact.

NickB

. Well, anything is theoretically possible but not hugely likely. I can see issues of reasonable access being raised if the UK were to change the rules in a way that would detrimentally affect EU airlines currently operating at Heathrow but I would not expect the EU to make unreasonable remands in relation to slots. The US, OTOH, is a different kettle of fish. I would be far from surprised if they attempted to extract more slots for US airlines in return for a UK-US bilateral agreement (a return to Bermuda II is unlikely, I would have thought).

The slots do not and have never belonged to HAL nor has HAL any power to decide how the slots are allocated. There is a dedicated body (Airport Coordination Ltd) reponsibile for slot allocation. Not sure how one would define "ownership" in relation to slots, anyway, but the nearest thing to ownership under the current regime (power to use and, under certain circumstances, to transfer entitlement to use) is with the airlines. But the rules could change, of course.

DrBernardo

Can I just point out that this is a bit of a red herring! Under the reciprocal staff and duty travel agreements between carriers - especially partners - there would be no difference in (the very small) cost between them flying on BA (on duty) or on the partner carrier. Of course certain carriers who aren't in a partnership with them might not permit this in premium cabins, so they'd have to pay real money in those cases.

But there are a number of eg OneWorld carriers that they could fly on very easily to check out different products!

But then this has been a BA management feature for some time - I remember being told more than 20 years ago how "bad" a BA competitor was, only to be given a slightly sheepish "no" when I asked if they'd ever actually experienced any of that competitor's service/product for themselves...

Ancient Observer

NickB
Slot ownership has not been legally defined. Some teenage scribblers at HM Treasury were tempted back in Darling's day to get HMG's mitts on ownership, but were put off by mixed legal advice. The formal Treasury view is that HMG own the slots. Airlines that "buy" slots know that they are buying a risk.

NickB

We are getting way OT here but this is a curious phrasing, imo. I think I know what you mean when you say that but that makes it nonetheless no less curious. We know what rights attach to being the holder of a slot and we also know what are the typical attributes of property rights. So it is essentially a matter of academic debate the extent to which the rights that attach to holding slots can be decribed as "property" rights or not and therefore whether the concept of "ownership" makes sense in relation to slots.* There seems to be a view that formally describing those rights as "property" rights operates some kind of magic transformation of what the rights are and will suddenly strengthen them. That would not be the case. It may make some kind of transactions in relation to slots easier but it does not fundamentally alter the rights attaching to the slots nor would it prevent the legislator to change the legal framework relating to the use of slots in a way that could make being the holder of one (whether we label this "ownership" or not) entirely worthless or, on the contrary, more valuable.

As a description of the current framework, this is meaningless. It assumes that ownership is a clear and unambiguous concept with a unique, immutable and universal set of attributes and that those attributes are capable of applying to slots. All of this would be open to discussion. I very much doubt that HMG would have been legally advised that HMG "owns" the slots. it is more likely that they would have been advised that no property rights can meaningfully attach to slots and that there is no such thing as slot ownership.

IMO, asking oneself who "owns" slots or if slots are capable of ownership is a rather futile discussion which obscures the real underlying issue, namely the conditions under which slots can be transferred or not.

*: and quite literally academic debate, in the sense that rivers of ink have been devoted since time immemorial to studying and attempting to define the concept of property.

BApilotinsider

Still seems to be a healthy trade, just today..


https://www.businesstraveller.com/bu...ts-75-million/

DFB_london

If the man won't even show his face at ggl events doubt he'll ever go on the shop floor to work and see how it really works and what customers really think.
Looks telling he's even too afraid to face his most valuable customers.
Sort of follows from Vueling culture where the whole airline goes into hiding when they go wrong.

mikebg

Contrasts with the ex-CEO of another airline I used to fly with a lot. I was sitting peacefully in their home lounge when I was greeted by a gentleman I had never met before. He introduced himself as the CEO of the airline and was keen to hear what customers felt about their product. I was told by company insiders that he and his wife would often travel on competing airlines 'incognito' in order to see what their competitors were offering. He was very successful as a CEO but unfortunately was forced to leave due to having made some rather low key non politically correct remarks which the press pounced on. None of his successors were really any good ...

chazman189

The problem is, you have to do this relatively extensively to get a meaningful sample. Just look across the board here - some people have great trips with BA, some have terrible. If you're the CEO trying your own or your competitor's product, you might just strike lucky (or unlucky).

Saying that, it looks good to staff and customers that you appear to take an active interest.

DFB_london

i wonder if AC dares step into a BA lounge or BA plane? Evidence suggests too gutless to meet even his best customers.

corporate-wage-slave

I've seen him in two GC T5 lounges, airside at T5, on a MAD flight and at a customer event. I've already seen more of him than his predecessor, partly because Mr. Williams liked to slip off into the background, whereas the current CEO doesn't seem to mind bouncing around in the centre of things.

simons1

I don't really follow. Treasury tried to get HMG mitts on ownership and were put off by legal advice. But Treasury claims HMG owns the slots in any case? That line of argument makes little sense to me.

I find it very hard to believe that tens of millions change hands for a single slot without some legal basis for thinking it provides a right to the buyer.

Ancient Observer

simons1
As ever, HMT regards itself as the ruler of the world. So holding multiple views on the same thing goes with the job.

They are a very principled outfit. But if you don't like those principles, they have plenty more. (apols to Marx Bros)

Raffles

Look at TSB. Before it could be privatised (before Lloyds bought it), the Govt had to pass a bill nationalising it, because it couldn't actually prove it was state owned!

HIDDY

By your own admission you only fly FR now, so you're hardly likely to bump into him in a BA lounge.