Feeling p1ssed at KUL
May 25, 2016, 2:48 pm
#48
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Surreyboy, welcome to FlyerTalk and particularly to the delightfully diverse BA branch. Thank you so much for sharing, you have certainly lent much weight to what our honourable matriarch HRH Pucci has said. Something appears concerningly amiss at KUL given your and the OP's recent experience.
Now that you've broken your your lurker status, I hope you stay around and join in the fun ^
Now that you've broken your your lurker status, I hope you stay around and join in the fun ^
May 25, 2016, 2:49 pm
#49
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Hmmm - "sadly broken" is perhaps a mild term for what appears to be going on in KUL. Looks like something beginning with a capital C to me. This needs to be brought to the attention of BA senior management as this is a very serious issue.
May 25, 2016, 2:55 pm
#50
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Hi All
My first post (a long time lurker - think that's the phrase), but this thread prompted me finally to join in.
I recently travelled on a 2 for 1 on the KUL route in F. I was travelling with an old friend on our annual trip to watch rugby somewhere (Singapore this time). All went well on the way out. Back from KUL, we checked in without problem (1K and 2K), but on boarding were told by a rather belligerent gate manager that 2K was broken and my friend was downgraded. Much consternation at the gate as you can imagine, but my friend is a good soul and accepted the downgrade (and the £500 too). When I went to my seat I was surprised to see a Malaysian lady sitting in 2K which was not broken. I explained the situation and my surprise to the FA who was non-plussed - the flight crew had seen my friend on their original manifest in 2K and then saw a whole load of moves and wondered what was going on. Yes 2A was broken, but not 2K. She called over the CSM who was equally confused. There were empty seats in First so he didn't understand what was going on either. The CSM went to find my friend and put him in 1E - all solved, plus £500. The flight crew were excellent in sorting this out and for the rest of the flight, but like the OP I am completely at a loss as to what was going on with the local KUL team. All very strange...
My first post (a long time lurker - think that's the phrase), but this thread prompted me finally to join in.
I recently travelled on a 2 for 1 on the KUL route in F. I was travelling with an old friend on our annual trip to watch rugby somewhere (Singapore this time). All went well on the way out. Back from KUL, we checked in without problem (1K and 2K), but on boarding were told by a rather belligerent gate manager that 2K was broken and my friend was downgraded. Much consternation at the gate as you can imagine, but my friend is a good soul and accepted the downgrade (and the £500 too). When I went to my seat I was surprised to see a Malaysian lady sitting in 2K which was not broken. I explained the situation and my surprise to the FA who was non-plussed - the flight crew had seen my friend on their original manifest in 2K and then saw a whole load of moves and wondered what was going on. Yes 2A was broken, but not 2K. She called over the CSM who was equally confused. There were empty seats in First so he didn't understand what was going on either. The CSM went to find my friend and put him in 1E - all solved, plus £500. The flight crew were excellent in sorting this out and for the rest of the flight, but like the OP I am completely at a loss as to what was going on with the local KUL team. All very strange...
May 25, 2016, 3:31 pm
#51
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A few observations from my side:
1) The Regulations state that BA should ask for volunteers first, with significant recompense being the usual inducement. Now in First that is probably a bit unseemly, but it is the law. However my advice to the OP is to work out the appropriate compensation via the EC261 thread and set the pace here, BA typically are not good at remediating this situation, though maybe the GGL bit will help. In particular you may want to take a fairly brutal approach to setting the timings here, at least that is an option open to you since traditionally aren't good at swift outcomes.
2) GfL doesn't cut any ice here unfortunately, GGL and GCH certainly should.
3) Downgrades on revenue tickets can result in re-routing with other carriers, and in the case of KUL that is indeed with Singapore Airlines. For whatever reason redemptions don't normally result in re-routing off BA/Joint Business unless there is no alternative.
4) I had been getting suspicious about some downgrades. The usual area for problems is Caribbean back to the UK, where oversales are more diffficult to control (genuinely) and I had noticed a pattern there of redemptions being hit. These are cheaper for BA to resolve, and given the legal need for volunteers I really don't think this is a good approach. Either way, I believe redemptions are being targetting for offloading on the rare occasion it is necessary.
5) I really wouldn't read anything into "locals", mates of the airport manager etc. Probably there was no easy option, and in particular I don't understand how an overbook of 2 could happen, the 789 isn't suppose to overbook in F at all, not even the usual 1 passenger. The only thing I can think of was an equipment change or someone got bumped from a previous flight earlier in the week. It's not about them anyway, it's about the OP.
For the OP, I would ring GGL in West Didsbury in the first instance, and see if they can someone make it up for you. I think they have to refer it to Newcastle, but that is how you should start.
1) The Regulations state that BA should ask for volunteers first, with significant recompense being the usual inducement. Now in First that is probably a bit unseemly, but it is the law. However my advice to the OP is to work out the appropriate compensation via the EC261 thread and set the pace here, BA typically are not good at remediating this situation, though maybe the GGL bit will help. In particular you may want to take a fairly brutal approach to setting the timings here, at least that is an option open to you since traditionally aren't good at swift outcomes.
2) GfL doesn't cut any ice here unfortunately, GGL and GCH certainly should.
3) Downgrades on revenue tickets can result in re-routing with other carriers, and in the case of KUL that is indeed with Singapore Airlines. For whatever reason redemptions don't normally result in re-routing off BA/Joint Business unless there is no alternative.
4) I had been getting suspicious about some downgrades. The usual area for problems is Caribbean back to the UK, where oversales are more diffficult to control (genuinely) and I had noticed a pattern there of redemptions being hit. These are cheaper for BA to resolve, and given the legal need for volunteers I really don't think this is a good approach. Either way, I believe redemptions are being targetting for offloading on the rare occasion it is necessary.
5) I really wouldn't read anything into "locals", mates of the airport manager etc. Probably there was no easy option, and in particular I don't understand how an overbook of 2 could happen, the 789 isn't suppose to overbook in F at all, not even the usual 1 passenger. The only thing I can think of was an equipment change or someone got bumped from a previous flight earlier in the week. It's not about them anyway, it's about the OP.
For the OP, I would ring GGL in West Didsbury in the first instance, and see if they can someone make it up for you. I think they have to refer it to Newcastle, but that is how you should start.
May 25, 2016, 3:39 pm
#52
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I cannot see anything in the EC261 regulation that requires the airline to solicit volunteers for downgrades, only for denial of boarding situations
Not sure of any other regulation outside North America that refers to soliciting volunteers
Not sure of any other regulation outside North America that refers to soliciting volunteers
May 25, 2016, 3:48 pm
#53
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Yes, you are quite right. I think it would be fair to point out the overlap between denied boarding and downgrades, though it doesn't appear to be the case here, assuming CW wasn't full.
May 25, 2016, 3:56 pm
#54
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Out of interest, why are oversales harder to control ex-Caribbean? Surely everybody has access to live availability in the CRS?
May 25, 2016, 3:59 pm
#55
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May 25, 2016, 4:00 pm
#56
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Welcome aboard Surreyboy. If you have the energy, I would certainly put in a complaint for the way you and your friend were treated on the ground, and perhaps a thank you to the people who sorted it out on the plane.
May 25, 2016, 4:03 pm
#57
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As far as selection criteria for downgrading passengers, does BA actually list the order ? I would not be surprised if downgrading the lowest fare paid passenger is not a key criterion
May 25, 2016, 6:31 pm
#58
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I'm not sure I'd bother with a complaint here given that the pax has been very handsomely compensated for what turned out to be a very brief inconvenience...
May 25, 2016, 11:20 pm
#59
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I was once downgraded (not on BA) from C to the Y cabin where they paged me in the lounge and said that F and C were overbooked and would I switch flights (I had already checked in and had a boarding pass). I said no, as a friend was picking me up at the arriving airport. They then offered to put me in economy to get their at the same time and offered to refund the ticket price of my segment. I asked him if he picked me because as a round-the-world ticket, I was on the lowest revenue ticket; he smiled and nodded, and said, but also given what an experienced flyer I was, I might be more flexible.
If the policy is to compensate downgrades based on the cost of the ticket, it made sense to me to offer in order of revenue. However, in this case I was offered the choice to fly the class I had purchased, but on a later flight, or a lower class with $$ refunded.
If the policy is to compensate downgrades based on the cost of the ticket, it made sense to me to offer in order of revenue. However, in this case I was offered the choice to fly the class I had purchased, but on a later flight, or a lower class with $$ refunded.
May 26, 2016, 12:23 am
#60
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KUL being a new destination for BA, I would not be surprised if they simply have not mastered the local culture yet.
I think that all people who this happened to should definitely complain to BA and point out the possible pattern, perhaps by referring to this thread. Normally it takes a customer service department a long time to discover patterns, and until then complaints are seen as 'exceptions'.
I think that all people who this happened to should definitely complain to BA and point out the possible pattern, perhaps by referring to this thread. Normally it takes a customer service department a long time to discover patterns, and until then complaints are seen as 'exceptions'.