Feeling p1ssed at KUL
Jun 17, 2016, 6:27 am
#166
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,166
What kind of airline overbooks first class?
I've never heard of an airline that overbooks first class, until today when I found out BA apparently does.
Getting downgraded as a GGL sucks big time, but IMHO the bigger issue is BA overbooking the first class cabin that resulted in involuntary downgrades in the first place.
I've never heard of an airline that overbooks first class, until today when I found out BA apparently does.
Getting downgraded as a GGL sucks big time, but IMHO the bigger issue is BA overbooking the first class cabin that resulted in involuntary downgrades in the first place.
Jun 17, 2016, 6:38 am
#167
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Programs: BA LTGold; LH Senator; HHGold; Bonvoy Plat
Posts: 1,370
What kind of airline overbooks first class?
I've never heard of an airline that overbooks first class, until today when I found out BA apparently does.
Getting downgraded as a GGL sucks big time, but IMHO the bigger issue is BA overbooking the first class cabin that resulted in involuntary downgrades in the first place.
I've never heard of an airline that overbooks first class, until today when I found out BA apparently does.
Getting downgraded as a GGL sucks big time, but IMHO the bigger issue is BA overbooking the first class cabin that resulted in involuntary downgrades in the first place.
Another fact - many F people - who only fly F, don't even bother with Exec Club and collecting Avios or worry about TPs. Consequently GGL can be somewhat irrelevant in the prioritisation of passengers.
If Id paid full fare F, let alone if i was regular in F or not, id be a bit miffed to be downgraded instead of a couple on a Frequent Flier Jolly
Jun 17, 2016, 8:22 am
#168
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SW London
Programs: BAEC Silver; Hilton Diamond;a miscellany of other hotel non-statuses
Posts: 3,607
Jun 17, 2016, 8:31 am
#169
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
Jun 17, 2016, 8:50 am
#170
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,166
Fly F a bit more and you will see it does happen.
Another fact - many F people - who only fly F, don't even bother with Exec Club and collecting Avios or worry about TPs. Consequently GGL can be somewhat irrelevant in the prioritisation of passengers.
If Id paid full fare F, let alone if i was regular in F or not, id be a bit miffed to be downgraded instead of a couple on a Frequent Flier Jolly
Another fact - many F people - who only fly F, don't even bother with Exec Club and collecting Avios or worry about TPs. Consequently GGL can be somewhat irrelevant in the prioritisation of passengers.
If Id paid full fare F, let alone if i was regular in F or not, id be a bit miffed to be downgraded instead of a couple on a Frequent Flier Jolly
So now I'm actually quite curious...which specific airlines overbook F other than BA?
Jun 17, 2016, 9:47 am
#171
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Programs: BA LTGold; LH Senator; HHGold; Bonvoy Plat
Posts: 1,370
Jun 17, 2016, 10:07 am
#172
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: MAN
Programs: None anymore
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by 8420PR
For comparison, Lufthansa gives €4000 per person voucher at the gate if you are downgraded from F to J (regardless of how you paid for the ticket). I think if BA had the same approach it would have made the downgraded flight much more comfortable.
Jun 17, 2016, 11:57 am
#173
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: EDI
Programs: BA Gold, QF LTG, TK Elite, IHG Amb & HH Diamond
Posts: 234
Having just read through this thread I feel huge sympathy for the OP. It's almost worth unleashing BBC Watchdog. I'm off to KUL soon so it's good to be aware of this type of thing.
I'm a complete novice in legal matters, but I do have one question though. Could BAGoldBoy have made a claim under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act if the flight taxes were paid directly to BA on his credit card? Goods and/or services misrepresented?
I'm a complete novice in legal matters, but I do have one question though. Could BAGoldBoy have made a claim under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act if the flight taxes were paid directly to BA on his credit card? Goods and/or services misrepresented?
Jun 17, 2016, 12:03 pm
#174
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,930
Having just read through this thread I feel huge sympathy for the OP. It's almost worth unleashing BBC Watchdog. I'm off to KUL soon so it's good to be aware of this type of thing.
I'm a complete novice in legal matters, but I do have one question though. Could BAGoldBoy have made a claim under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act if the flight taxes were paid directly to BA on his credit card? Goods and/or services misrepresented?
I'm a complete novice in legal matters, but I do have one question though. Could BAGoldBoy have made a claim under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act if the flight taxes were paid directly to BA on his credit card? Goods and/or services misrepresented?
Jun 17, 2016, 12:06 pm
#175
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
Famously BA found their most profitable North American-based flyer was not a member of BAEC (he may have been a member of AA though).
Jun 17, 2016, 5:43 pm
#177
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Gloucestershire
Programs: BA Gold (ex-GGL, maybe future Silver), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,201
No misrepresentation though. First was presumably exactly what BA said it was, nor did the OP act in reliance on any misrepresentation (which is needed to make it actionable). He just didn't get what he paid for.
It is a breach of contract, and the remedy for breach of contract is damages to put the victim of the breach in the position he would have been in, had the contract been performed. (Of course that would require a time machine, so the damages have to be 'equivalent' in value - they could, if not validly capped, exceed the value of the flight).
EU261 is a statutory compensation regime that exists separately from the damages regime for breach of contract and the Montreal Convention, which governs contracts of carriage.
You could argue that it's a s.75 Consumer Credit Act claim, in that it may be a breach of an implied term of the contract that the airline will pay EU261 compensation. However, there are issues here, too. While the ticketing airline and the operating airline are the same here, EU261 is not damages for breach, nor is it necessarily paid by the party with whom the purchaser has a contract (e.g.., if the incident had occurred on MH out of LHR, MH would have been liable even though the OP would have given his money to BA).
It is arguable that an EU261 claim might be brought against a credit card company in lieu of MCOL, but my instinct tells me that it would not be successful (and once you've reached the stage where you're considering issuing proceedings against your credit card company, it's far simpler to go after the airline).
It is a breach of contract, and the remedy for breach of contract is damages to put the victim of the breach in the position he would have been in, had the contract been performed. (Of course that would require a time machine, so the damages have to be 'equivalent' in value - they could, if not validly capped, exceed the value of the flight).
EU261 is a statutory compensation regime that exists separately from the damages regime for breach of contract and the Montreal Convention, which governs contracts of carriage.
You could argue that it's a s.75 Consumer Credit Act claim, in that it may be a breach of an implied term of the contract that the airline will pay EU261 compensation. However, there are issues here, too. While the ticketing airline and the operating airline are the same here, EU261 is not damages for breach, nor is it necessarily paid by the party with whom the purchaser has a contract (e.g.., if the incident had occurred on MH out of LHR, MH would have been liable even though the OP would have given his money to BA).
It is arguable that an EU261 claim might be brought against a credit card company in lieu of MCOL, but my instinct tells me that it would not be successful (and once you've reached the stage where you're considering issuing proceedings against your credit card company, it's far simpler to go after the airline).
Jun 17, 2016, 6:34 pm
#178
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: BA (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 1,256
As to Watchdog caring, no chance I would have thought. Only in the rarefied atmosphere of Flyertalk would OP's plight attract much sympathy. To almost everyone else it looks like someone who used miles to score a free ticket for an ultra-luxury class of travel that 99% of them will never see flying in a luxury class that 95% of them will never see and receiving compo into the bargain. It's not like OP lost his life savings responding to an email telling him that he had won a lottery and just had to provide a few personal details to get the cash...
Jun 18, 2016, 4:31 am
#180
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,990