Jun 16, 2014, 7:00 am
Last edit by: TCX69
In late 2014/early 2015 British Airways has refurbished all of its A320 and A321 fleet (ex-bmi aircraft are not to be refurbished, and A319 conversions are still undergoing--see below) to an interior of:
The Shorthaul Boeing fleet (Gatwick 737s, Heathrow 767s) will not be refurbished. These aircraft will remain with a business class seat pitch of 34", width of 19.5" and recline of 4.5", and with an economy class seat pitch of 31", width of 18" and recline of 4.5".
The ex-bmi A319 and A320 aircraft will not be refurbished. These aircraft will remain with a seat pitch of 30", width of 18" and recline of 3" in both business and economy.
Mainline BA Shorthaul Airbus Seat Pitch Changes
A319 business class from 34" to 30"
A320 business class from 34" to 30"
A321 business class from 34" to 30"
A319 economy class from 31" to 29"
A320 economy class from 31" to 30"
A321 economy class from 31" to 30"
Mainline BA Shorthaul Airbus Seat Width Changes
A319 business class from 19.5" to 17"
A320 business class from 19.5" to 17"
A321 business class from 19.5" to 17"
A319 economy class from 18" to 17"
A320 economy class from 18" to 17"
A321 economy class from 18" to 17"
Mainline BA Shorthaul Airbus Seat Recline Changes
A319/A320/A321 business class from 4.5" to 3"
A319/A320/A321 economy class from 4.5" to 2"
The A320 aircraft fitted with in flight entertainment (IFE) will continue to offer it for use on selected flights of 3 hours and over (Band 4) – ATH/IST/LCA. These aircraft no longer offer in-seat power.
Detailed description of the new seats and cabin design, courtesy of lhrsinsyd
New seat plans
courtesy of TCX69
Completed Aircraft - 28 Apr 16
courtesy of TCX69
A319
All Complete
A320
All Complete
A321
All Complete
- Business class (Club Europe/CE) seat pitch of 30", width of 17" and recline of 3";
- Economy class (Euro Traveller/ET) seat pitch of 29-30", width of 17" and recline of 2".
The Shorthaul Boeing fleet (Gatwick 737s, Heathrow 767s) will not be refurbished. These aircraft will remain with a business class seat pitch of 34", width of 19.5" and recline of 4.5", and with an economy class seat pitch of 31", width of 18" and recline of 4.5".
The ex-bmi A319 and A320 aircraft will not be refurbished. These aircraft will remain with a seat pitch of 30", width of 18" and recline of 3" in both business and economy.
Mainline BA Shorthaul Airbus Seat Pitch Changes
A319 business class from 34" to 30"
A320 business class from 34" to 30"
A321 business class from 34" to 30"
A319 economy class from 31" to 29"
A320 economy class from 31" to 30"
A321 economy class from 31" to 30"
Mainline BA Shorthaul Airbus Seat Width Changes
A319 business class from 19.5" to 17"
A320 business class from 19.5" to 17"
A321 business class from 19.5" to 17"
A319 economy class from 18" to 17"
A320 economy class from 18" to 17"
A321 economy class from 18" to 17"
Mainline BA Shorthaul Airbus Seat Recline Changes
A319/A320/A321 business class from 4.5" to 3"
A319/A320/A321 economy class from 4.5" to 2"
The A320 aircraft fitted with in flight entertainment (IFE) will continue to offer it for use on selected flights of 3 hours and over (Band 4) – ATH/IST/LCA. These aircraft no longer offer in-seat power.
Detailed description of the new seats and cabin design, courtesy of lhrsinsyd
New seat plans
courtesy of TCX69
Completed Aircraft - 28 Apr 16
courtesy of TCX69
A319
All Complete
A320
All Complete
A321
All Complete
New Shorthaul Cabins
Jun 16, 2014, 8:36 am
#76
Join Date: Jul 2002
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I also think that a lot of people are jumping to opinion based on a small number of photos and a seat pitch number which as 6F points out can be almost meaningless. Wait until you sit in these seats or see some photos of the side view before you dismiss them.
Jun 16, 2014, 8:43 am
#78
Join Date: May 2009
Location: London
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Perhaps those with upcoming SH flights could take a tape measure with them and measure the usable seat pitch as described by 6F (and the wiki updated) so that a proper before and after comparison can be made
Jun 16, 2014, 8:48 am
#79
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: in a cabin
Posts: 6,522
Having flown these new types of Slimline seats on Finnair (Recaro Slimline CL3510) and also the dreaded NEK on Luftwaffe, I am not too concerned about comfort. The seats, especially on Finnair, are actually quite comfortable and more so than the current CE seats on BA, which I find you slide down from. Yeah, they are quite plush and padded, but in reality the slimline seats are better to sit in.
The reduction from 30 to 34 sounds alarming though. I suppose they have taken into account that the slimline seats are cleverly designed with less obstruction of real estate at knee level, hence the 4 inches/10 cm loss won't make that much of a difference.
BA are clever here. Once CE has been enhanced enough the move to ET only will be simple. Just remove the divider, seat block and decrease space. Bob's your uncle.
The reduction from 30 to 34 sounds alarming though. I suppose they have taken into account that the slimline seats are cleverly designed with less obstruction of real estate at knee level, hence the 4 inches/10 cm loss won't make that much of a difference.
BA are clever here. Once CE has been enhanced enough the move to ET only will be simple. Just remove the divider, seat block and decrease space. Bob's your uncle.
Jun 16, 2014, 8:53 am
#80
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Posts: 2,512
Arguing about the semantics of how pitch is calculated is likely to be fraught with difficulty. Most people will take a look at the headline figures and base their judgement on that (as we have seen), and won't care to listen to arguments about the "best" way to calculate it. That may well be interpreted as spinning the numbers.
I shall be applying my tried and tested seat of pants test - do I feel more or less comfortable in the new cabin compared to the old one. The rest is window dressing.
One final thought - if I was O'Leary I'd be giving a lot of thought to a future campaign "highlighting" the 30 inch seat pitch on Ryanair planes compared to the 29" on the BA A319.
I shall be applying my tried and tested seat of pants test - do I feel more or less comfortable in the new cabin compared to the old one. The rest is window dressing.
One final thought - if I was O'Leary I'd be giving a lot of thought to a future campaign "highlighting" the 30 inch seat pitch on Ryanair planes compared to the 29" on the BA A319.
Jun 16, 2014, 8:56 am
#81
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Jun 16, 2014, 9:16 am
#83
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: SQ-PPS+8, BA-Mucci Diamente, Mucci Siegneur des Bains Chauds
Posts: 2,286
This enhancement of legroom is not going to go down very well with the emotional support animals people may need to travel with. It is surely tight enough now for a mini seeing-eye horse!
Jun 16, 2014, 9:16 am
#84
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Duchy of Milan
Programs: BA Gold, TK Elite, AZ CFP
Posts: 1,857
I'm very happy BA decided to refurbish its short haul product, the new seats seem quite comfortable, some aircrafts are in terrible conditions: in my last two CE flights the seat was broken and the carpet dirty, the magazine pocket was broken too so as soon as we took off maganizes fell on the ground.
The seat pinch reduction is a bad news, but this is the market and it was greatly rumored, I hope at least they won't increase prices as they preach.
The seat pinch reduction is a bad news, but this is the market and it was greatly rumored, I hope at least they won't increase prices as they preach.
Jun 16, 2014, 9:20 am
#85
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Purely as a curious point, would people still be up in arms (or legs as is the case) about the new CE if BA offered 100TP's opposed to the current 80TPs?
I fly CE for most of my travel because:
a) I can book economy and upgrade through a POUG where applicable (out of 38 Short-Haul trips this year, I have been offered it on all but 1 single flight).
b) It helps me maintain my Gold status, and ensures I will become GGL for my next status year.
c) It allows me to get off the plane and queue for security quicker than otherwise possible (I am usually in Row 1).
I can live without the food, and the middle seat being empty is only relevant if you get there before your fellow row-mate. If he/she is there first, they will have likely dumped their stuff on the middle seat rendering it near useless for your own possessions.
I fly CE for most of my travel because:
a) I can book economy and upgrade through a POUG where applicable (out of 38 Short-Haul trips this year, I have been offered it on all but 1 single flight).
b) It helps me maintain my Gold status, and ensures I will become GGL for my next status year.
c) It allows me to get off the plane and queue for security quicker than otherwise possible (I am usually in Row 1).
I can live without the food, and the middle seat being empty is only relevant if you get there before your fellow row-mate. If he/she is there first, they will have likely dumped their stuff on the middle seat rendering it near useless for your own possessions.
Jun 16, 2014, 9:37 am
#87
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Brighton and Hove, UK
Programs: LH FTL, BA Silver, Thameslink Delay Repay
Posts: 1,248
For now, my behaviour won't change anyway, I'll still buy POUGs and the occasional bargain basement I class, and I still won't pay full-whack R/D/C/J fare. I won't have to rub shoulders with anyone sitting next to me, I'll get a decent enough meal. I get to be first off the plane. I get TPs which let me into a constantly-enhanced-but-still-better-than-GC Flounge. And 90% of the time I'll get crew who are friendlier and deliver decent service.
But, as with previous enhancements, it's slowly chipping away at the amount of goodwill I'm willing to show towards BA... And I don't think that helps when you try to be a premium brand.
Jun 16, 2014, 9:46 am
#89
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Programs: TK *G, BA Gold
Posts: 592
If there are more seats on board, are you increasing the amount of hand-baggage storage?
We’ve added more information on to ba.com and at online check-in to remind customers of their allowance.
There are new gauges and signage at the airports to enable customers to check they’re within their baggage limits and we are issuing tags for hand luggage that should go under the seats at check-in and at the gate. These will enable customers to know where to put their bags and act as a flag to cabin crew.
We’ve added more information on to ba.com and at online check-in to remind customers of their allowance.
There are new gauges and signage at the airports to enable customers to check they’re within their baggage limits and we are issuing tags for hand luggage that should go under the seats at check-in and at the gate. These will enable customers to know where to put their bags and act as a flag to cabin crew.
The overhead bins for business class passengers also get stuffed with luggage from economy class passengers and they fit small signs "business class passengers luggage only" in an attempt to discourage this (although the signs don't move with the curtain so signs are only stuck on a few bins at the front).
Jun 16, 2014, 9:51 am
#90
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Short Haul business class will still offer value on connecting itineraries I’d have thought esp with those flying from the US.
Will pax who have paid expensive first/ business fares be happy to be dumped into ET for the connecting legs? Whilst the hard product will obviously not add much, I think we’re underestimating the simple effect that the lower occupancy and, as importantly, the curtain creates.
I don’t think BA will be able to bin CE, whilst people are paying £4-5,000 for a flight connecting to Europe. However crap, people will want and expect a differentiated product.
Will pax who have paid expensive first/ business fares be happy to be dumped into ET for the connecting legs? Whilst the hard product will obviously not add much, I think we’re underestimating the simple effect that the lower occupancy and, as importantly, the curtain creates.
I don’t think BA will be able to bin CE, whilst people are paying £4-5,000 for a flight connecting to Europe. However crap, people will want and expect a differentiated product.