The BA Compensation Thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004
Feb 10, 2014, 6:19 pm
#211
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 14
Thank you all so much for your reply. I will go ahead and compose an email that I will send back to them. But what will happen in case they still reject any compensation for me and my husband? Or if they do not reply within 10 days? Been reading about a small claims court, but I don't know where to begin or where to find one.
Last edited by Catmare; Feb 10, 2014 at 6:25 pm
Feb 10, 2014, 8:27 pm
#212
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,847
Thank you all so much for your reply. I will go ahead and compose an email that I will send back to them. But what will happen in case they still reject any compensation for me and my husband? Or if they do not reply within 10 days? Been reading about a small claims court, but I don't know where to begin or where to find one.
Feb 11, 2014, 5:20 am
#213
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Mucci, BA, AF
Posts: 10,130
If going via small claims, does BA usually pay up upon receiving court summons or do you actually have to go to court?
Feb 11, 2014, 8:21 am
#215
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 3
BA Denied My Wife Boarding in Amman
Hello everyone, I have been reading through these threads and it has offered a lot of food for thought, but I think my wife and I are experiencing a pretty unique situation.
Essentially my wife and I were scheduled to fly from Amman, Jordan, to Dallas, Texas via London Heathrow Airport and Chicago O'Hare Airport on January 9, 2014.
We arrived on time and prepared for our check-in at Queen Alia Airport in Amman. After checking myself in at the British Airways desk, the worker at desk ultimately told us that my wife would not be allowed to board due to her travel documentation being insufficient to transit the UK.
We were then told that we only had about 5 minutes to make a decision, as they were going to be closing the check-in desk. I elected not to board, as to be with and assist my wife in this situation that we had now found ourselves in.
After many lengthy and unsuccessful attempts to speak with British Airways staff at Queen Alia Airport, I did my own research on the internet on my mobile phone, and found that she indeed had presented all necessary and correct information to the BA staff, but for whatever reason (perhaps they misread the document number?) denied her boarding.
After another lengthy battle to seek an explanation from British Airways, the customer support staff at Queen Alia Airport were finally able to summon the manager of passenger operations that day at the Airport.
She re-reviewed her information, and admitted to us fully that British Airways had erred, and my wife should have been allowed to board.
We were eventually re-booked, but ultimately arrived to our destination nearly 20 hours late on January 10th.
British Airways has clearly acknowledged their mistake, but, until this point, have refused to accept that our situation falls under EU Regulation 26/2004 under the "Denied Boarding" provision. I disagree as my wife presented herself to the check-in desk on time, and with all proper travel documentation required. Though in the e-mail and phone call I received from BA, they have said misunderstanding of travel documents is a "procedural" mistake, and therefore does not fall under 261/2004.
After consultation with a representative of the CAA via telephone, she conferred that, based on the information, that we are within our right to seek compensation and she directed me to submit a complaint via their online form.
Does anyone have any comments about this? Any likely outcomes or suggestions?
Thanks.
Essentially my wife and I were scheduled to fly from Amman, Jordan, to Dallas, Texas via London Heathrow Airport and Chicago O'Hare Airport on January 9, 2014.
We arrived on time and prepared for our check-in at Queen Alia Airport in Amman. After checking myself in at the British Airways desk, the worker at desk ultimately told us that my wife would not be allowed to board due to her travel documentation being insufficient to transit the UK.
We were then told that we only had about 5 minutes to make a decision, as they were going to be closing the check-in desk. I elected not to board, as to be with and assist my wife in this situation that we had now found ourselves in.
After many lengthy and unsuccessful attempts to speak with British Airways staff at Queen Alia Airport, I did my own research on the internet on my mobile phone, and found that she indeed had presented all necessary and correct information to the BA staff, but for whatever reason (perhaps they misread the document number?) denied her boarding.
After another lengthy battle to seek an explanation from British Airways, the customer support staff at Queen Alia Airport were finally able to summon the manager of passenger operations that day at the Airport.
She re-reviewed her information, and admitted to us fully that British Airways had erred, and my wife should have been allowed to board.
We were eventually re-booked, but ultimately arrived to our destination nearly 20 hours late on January 10th.
British Airways has clearly acknowledged their mistake, but, until this point, have refused to accept that our situation falls under EU Regulation 26/2004 under the "Denied Boarding" provision. I disagree as my wife presented herself to the check-in desk on time, and with all proper travel documentation required. Though in the e-mail and phone call I received from BA, they have said misunderstanding of travel documents is a "procedural" mistake, and therefore does not fall under 261/2004.
After consultation with a representative of the CAA via telephone, she conferred that, based on the information, that we are within our right to seek compensation and she directed me to submit a complaint via their online form.
Does anyone have any comments about this? Any likely outcomes or suggestions?
Thanks.
Feb 11, 2014, 8:33 am
#216
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,847
Welcome to Flyertalk asad112
Welcome to Flyertalk asad112, and welcome to the BA board. I would hope that after you have resolved this issue that you will continue to participate in this friendly discussion board. Welcome on board.
The definition of denied boarding could not be clearer in my view.
So if BA admits she has adequate documentation, and the there were no reasonable grounds for thinking them inadequate, I don't think BA has a good case. Procedural mistakes do not seem to me to constitute reasonable grounds. However - and without intending to be too negative about it - you've written a relatively long post without actually specifying precisely what it was that the gate agent was mistaken about, so I'm a bit in the dark here and there may be other aspects to this story.
You won't get anywhere without a formal written request for EU261, so if you have not done so I would suggest that is your starting point. Then follow the process in post 1 to escalate as required.
The definition of denied boarding could not be clearer in my view.
Originally Posted by EU261
"denied boarding’ means a refusal to carry passengers on a flight, although they have presented themselves for boarding under the conditions laid down in Article 3(2),except where there are reasonable grounds to deny them boarding, such as reasons of health, safety or security, or inadequate travel documentation;"
You won't get anywhere without a formal written request for EU261, so if you have not done so I would suggest that is your starting point. Then follow the process in post 1 to escalate as required.
Feb 11, 2014, 9:01 am
#217
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 10
TWOV
Hello everyone, I have been reading through these threads and it has offered a lot of food for thought, but I think my wife and I are experiencing a pretty unique situation.
Essentially my wife and I were scheduled to fly from Amman, Jordan, to Dallas, Texas via London Heathrow Airport and Chicago O'Hare Airport on January 9, 2014.
We arrived on time and prepared for our check-in at Queen Alia Airport in Amman. After checking myself in at the British Airways desk, the worker at desk ultimately told us that my wife would not be allowed to board due to her travel documentation being insufficient to transit the UK.
but She re-reviewed her information, and admitted to us fully that British Airways had erred, and my wife should have been allowed to board.
We were eventually re-booked, but ultimately arrived to our destination nearly 20 hours late on January 10th.
British Airways has clearly acknowledged their mistake, Though in the e-mail and phone call I received from BA, they have said misunderstanding of travel documents is a "procedural" mistake, and therefore does not fall under 261/2004.
After consultation with a representative of the CAA via telephone, she conferred that, based on the information, that we are within our right to seek compensation and she directed me to submit a complaint via their online form.
Does anyone have any comments about this? Any likely outcomes or suggestions?
Thanks.
Essentially my wife and I were scheduled to fly from Amman, Jordan, to Dallas, Texas via London Heathrow Airport and Chicago O'Hare Airport on January 9, 2014.
We arrived on time and prepared for our check-in at Queen Alia Airport in Amman. After checking myself in at the British Airways desk, the worker at desk ultimately told us that my wife would not be allowed to board due to her travel documentation being insufficient to transit the UK.
but She re-reviewed her information, and admitted to us fully that British Airways had erred, and my wife should have been allowed to board.
We were eventually re-booked, but ultimately arrived to our destination nearly 20 hours late on January 10th.
British Airways has clearly acknowledged their mistake, Though in the e-mail and phone call I received from BA, they have said misunderstanding of travel documents is a "procedural" mistake, and therefore does not fall under 261/2004.
After consultation with a representative of the CAA via telephone, she conferred that, based on the information, that we are within our right to seek compensation and she directed me to submit a complaint via their online form.
Does anyone have any comments about this? Any likely outcomes or suggestions?
Thanks.
Feb 11, 2014, 9:01 am
#218
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 3
Welcome to Flyertalk asad112, and welcome to the BA board. I would hope that after you have resolved this issue that you will continue to participate in this friendly discussion board. Welcome on board.
The definition of denied boarding could not be clearer in my view.
So if BA admits she has adequate documentation, and the there were no reasonable grounds for thinking them inadequate, I don't think BA has a good case. Procedural mistakes do not seem to me to constitute reasonable grounds. However - and without intending to be too negative about it - you've written a relatively long post without actually specifying precisely what it was that the gate agent was mistaken about, so I'm a bit in the dark here and there may be other aspects to this story.
You won't get anywhere without a formal written request for EU261, so if you have not done so I would suggest that is your starting point. Then follow the process in post 1 to escalate as required.
The definition of denied boarding could not be clearer in my view.
So if BA admits she has adequate documentation, and the there were no reasonable grounds for thinking them inadequate, I don't think BA has a good case. Procedural mistakes do not seem to me to constitute reasonable grounds. However - and without intending to be too negative about it - you've written a relatively long post without actually specifying precisely what it was that the gate agent was mistaken about, so I'm a bit in the dark here and there may be other aspects to this story.
You won't get anywhere without a formal written request for EU261, so if you have not done so I would suggest that is your starting point. Then follow the process in post 1 to escalate as required.
I'll try to explain what is was the gate agent was mistaken about in the least confusing way possible.
My wife is a national of the Palestinian Authority and a permanent resident of the United States. Her I-551 (greed card) expired in November 2013. Though, in October 2013, she received a one year extension of her permanent residence from the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) through a form title "I-797 Notice of Action". In addition to extending her permanent residency one year (in her case until October 2014), it stipulates that she is free to travel abroad and work in the United States.
In addition to receiving a one-year extension, the I-797 form serves a receipt notice that USCIS has began processing a form titled "I-751 - Petition to Remove Conditions on Permanent Residence." So the hiccup occurred when the gate agent was trying to ascertain whether or not she had appropriate documentation to transit the UK. Though her nationality typically requires a Direct Airside Transit Visa (DATV) for the UK, she falls under one unique exception allowing her to transit without a visa so long as she has an " ... expired I-551 permanent resident card issued on or after 21 April 1998, accompanied by an I-797 extension letter issued by the Bureau of Citizenship;"
When the desk agent consulted with their contact in the British Embassy in Amman, I believe the desk agent was describing her form as an "I-751" rather than its correct name as an "I-797". This was all happening somewhat behind the scenes, so we were just told she could no board because she cannot transit the UK because her travel documents were insufficient. It was only after I had time to review her documents and check the UK Border Agency web site that I was able to bring to their attention the egregious error they had made.
As far as directly requesting compensation under EU261, I did so in the original complaint message I sent to BA, and after I received their denial, I sent a second letter directly quoting the text of the law that I believed pertained to her (namely showing up on time with all proper documentation).
Again, per the advice of a CAA representative, I have escalated the complaint to their level.
Thanks again!
Last edited by asad112; Feb 11, 2014 at 9:14 am Reason: Grammar
Feb 11, 2014, 11:17 am
#219
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UK
Programs: BA Silver, EK Silver, ABP ;)
Posts: 1,631
This is becoming the new PPI reclaim scam - I've had a SPAM text AND a SPAM phone call today!
There are now companies that will help you look back through your flight history and claim on your behalf (and take a big chunk thereof).
There are now companies that will help you look back through your flight history and claim on your behalf (and take a big chunk thereof).
Feb 12, 2014, 11:44 am
#220
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: AMS
Programs: Skyteam elite, One world Emerald
Posts: 142
The BA Compensation Thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004
Rather than starting a new thread, I'd post here and get your opinions:
Traveled on the 268 LAX-LHR on Monday. Aircraft was supposed to be a 380, but was changed to a 747. So upper deck confirmed CW seat got changed to a middle CW seat on the lower deck. These things happen, no big deal. However, after take off none of the seat controls in CW (and F according to the crew) were working. Multiple restarts of the IFE and seat control system (don't know if those are linked) fixed the IFE, but not the seats. Crew were able to turn the seat into a flat bed, but only after meal service which I planned to skip to get a good nights rest. I've been on 'broken' seats before, and BA took a pro-active approach in offering some compensation. As this affected the whole cabin, I would have thought this would have been addressed, but nothing was mentioned. All in all, a less than stellar CW experience. Should I take up this matter with BA or just move on?
Traveled on the 268 LAX-LHR on Monday. Aircraft was supposed to be a 380, but was changed to a 747. So upper deck confirmed CW seat got changed to a middle CW seat on the lower deck. These things happen, no big deal. However, after take off none of the seat controls in CW (and F according to the crew) were working. Multiple restarts of the IFE and seat control system (don't know if those are linked) fixed the IFE, but not the seats. Crew were able to turn the seat into a flat bed, but only after meal service which I planned to skip to get a good nights rest. I've been on 'broken' seats before, and BA took a pro-active approach in offering some compensation. As this affected the whole cabin, I would have thought this would have been addressed, but nothing was mentioned. All in all, a less than stellar CW experience. Should I take up this matter with BA or just move on?
Feb 12, 2014, 12:12 pm
#221
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 219
Rather than starting a new thread, I'd post here and get your opinions:
Traveled on the 268 LAX-LHR on Monday. Aircraft was supposed to be a 380, but was changed to a 747. So upper deck confirmed CW seat got changed to a middle CW seat on the lower deck. These things happen, no big deal. However, after take off none of the seat controls in CW (and F according to the crew) were working. Multiple restarts of the IFE and seat control system (don't know if those are linked) fixed the IFE, but not the seats. Crew were able to turn the seat into a flat bed, but only after meal service which I planned to skip to get a good nights rest. I've been on 'broken' seats before, and BA took a pro-active approach in offering some compensation. As this affected the whole cabin, I would have thought this would have been addressed, but nothing was mentioned. All in all, a less than stellar CW experience. Should I take up this matter with BA or just move on?
Traveled on the 268 LAX-LHR on Monday. Aircraft was supposed to be a 380, but was changed to a 747. So upper deck confirmed CW seat got changed to a middle CW seat on the lower deck. These things happen, no big deal. However, after take off none of the seat controls in CW (and F according to the crew) were working. Multiple restarts of the IFE and seat control system (don't know if those are linked) fixed the IFE, but not the seats. Crew were able to turn the seat into a flat bed, but only after meal service which I planned to skip to get a good nights rest. I've been on 'broken' seats before, and BA took a pro-active approach in offering some compensation. As this affected the whole cabin, I would have thought this would have been addressed, but nothing was mentioned. All in all, a less than stellar CW experience. Should I take up this matter with BA or just move on?
Feb 12, 2014, 1:49 pm
#222
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: In between BRU, AMS, DUS and LUX...
Programs: AF/KL Plat, BA Gold, A3 Gold, IHG Diamond, MR Gold, HH Diamond, ALL Platinum
Posts: 1,044
Hi all,
My flight BA175 LHR-JFK is scheduled to be delayed of more than 4 hours tomorrow. I am not sure this is due to weather or operational reasons, but when I look at the EWR flights, they are still scheduled ontime, and if there is bad weather in JFK, there are strong chances it is the same in EWR too... How can I know if the reason for the delay is due to bad weather or not ? I checked the status of similar AA, DL, VS or UA flights and they are not (yet ?) delayed...
Thanks for your help,
My flight BA175 LHR-JFK is scheduled to be delayed of more than 4 hours tomorrow. I am not sure this is due to weather or operational reasons, but when I look at the EWR flights, they are still scheduled ontime, and if there is bad weather in JFK, there are strong chances it is the same in EWR too... How can I know if the reason for the delay is due to bad weather or not ? I checked the status of similar AA, DL, VS or UA flights and they are not (yet ?) delayed...
Thanks for your help,
Feb 12, 2014, 2:15 pm
#223
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Mucci, BA, AF
Posts: 10,130
A lot of JFK flights are messed up tomorrow - morning flights delayed, 3 in a row cancelled after that. Most likely weather.
Feb 13, 2014, 6:57 am
#224
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1
Hi,
My flight BA0218 From Denver - london heathrow on the 01st of Feb was delayed by 24 hours as the previous flight was delayed into denver.
I have emailed BA with a claim but have received the following email.
Thank you for contacting us. I apologise for the delay in replying to you.
Your claim for compensation has been refused because flight BA0218 on 01 February 2014 was delayed due to an unexpected flight safety shortcoming, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, British Airways is not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
Prior to departure of the flight, we noticed a rodent in the aircraft. This resulted in further investigations before the aircraft was airworthy for the intended flight, which led to an aircraft change.
Unfortunately airline operations are subject to circumstances outside the airline's control. British Airways takes all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight in such circumstances. Consideration is given to whether there are any operational options available before a decision to delay is made. We are sorry that the delay was necessary in this case.
Thank you again for following this up with us. I do hope we have the chance to welcome you on board again soon.
Best regards
Is this classed as exceptional circumstances?
Thanks
My flight BA0218 From Denver - london heathrow on the 01st of Feb was delayed by 24 hours as the previous flight was delayed into denver.
I have emailed BA with a claim but have received the following email.
Thank you for contacting us. I apologise for the delay in replying to you.
Your claim for compensation has been refused because flight BA0218 on 01 February 2014 was delayed due to an unexpected flight safety shortcoming, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, British Airways is not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
Prior to departure of the flight, we noticed a rodent in the aircraft. This resulted in further investigations before the aircraft was airworthy for the intended flight, which led to an aircraft change.
Unfortunately airline operations are subject to circumstances outside the airline's control. British Airways takes all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight in such circumstances. Consideration is given to whether there are any operational options available before a decision to delay is made. We are sorry that the delay was necessary in this case.
Thank you again for following this up with us. I do hope we have the chance to welcome you on board again soon.
Best regards
Is this classed as exceptional circumstances?
Thanks
Feb 13, 2014, 7:35 am
#225
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,709
Hi,
My flight BA0218 From Denver - london heathrow on the 01st of Feb was delayed by 24 hours as the previous flight was delayed into denver.
I have emailed BA with a claim but have received the following email.
Thank you for contacting us. I apologise for the delay in replying to you.
Your claim for compensation has been refused because flight BA0218 on 01 February 2014 was delayed due to an unexpected flight safety shortcoming, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, British Airways is not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
Prior to departure of the flight, we noticed a rodent in the aircraft. This resulted in further investigations before the aircraft was airworthy for the intended flight, which led to an aircraft change.
Unfortunately airline operations are subject to circumstances outside the airline's control. British Airways takes all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight in such circumstances. Consideration is given to whether there are any operational options available before a decision to delay is made. We are sorry that the delay was necessary in this case.
Thank you again for following this up with us. I do hope we have the chance to welcome you on board again soon.
Best regards
Is this classed as exceptional circumstances?
Thanks
My flight BA0218 From Denver - london heathrow on the 01st of Feb was delayed by 24 hours as the previous flight was delayed into denver.
I have emailed BA with a claim but have received the following email.
Thank you for contacting us. I apologise for the delay in replying to you.
Your claim for compensation has been refused because flight BA0218 on 01 February 2014 was delayed due to an unexpected flight safety shortcoming, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, British Airways is not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
Prior to departure of the flight, we noticed a rodent in the aircraft. This resulted in further investigations before the aircraft was airworthy for the intended flight, which led to an aircraft change.
Unfortunately airline operations are subject to circumstances outside the airline's control. British Airways takes all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight in such circumstances. Consideration is given to whether there are any operational options available before a decision to delay is made. We are sorry that the delay was necessary in this case.
Thank you again for following this up with us. I do hope we have the chance to welcome you on board again soon.
Best regards
Is this classed as exceptional circumstances?
Thanks
Welcome to FT!