tom911

Have you noticed the Samsung tablets in business class on the 767-300s? I have one of those loaded with video and the video quality/display is very good.

tom911

When are the AA 787s due? Is it 2013 or 2014? That alone may be the reason they don't invest any money in aging 767s. I believe UA takes delivery of their first 787 later this year.

tom911

AA EXP flyers (OW Emerald) get 8 of those a year for flying 100K (you can also make that tier with points or segments). They're good on any published fare but are capacity controlled and good only on AA metal. Having said that, I've cleared 100% for 11 years, and I know other AA flyers doing just as well. It's probably the best perk of being a top tier flyer at AA. Lots of speculation on the AA forum as to whether the new 777 seating configuration may cause changes in that program, but as AA always controls the inventory I can't see anything changing. They can always hold those upgrades for gate assignment if seats are open and not lose the opportunity to sell the seat.

BahrainLad

So, er, they're not at all like GUF2s or MFUs then. Thanks!

tom911

I wouldn't know as I'm not a member of BA's program (BA flights go into my AA account). They're good on any published BA fare for use on BA metal and you get 8 of them a year?

BahrainLad

No. A GUF2 is a one-cabin upgrade for two travelling together which you get when reaching 3500 TPs (iirc). One of them. Standard Gold/OWE qualification is 1500 TPs a year.

MFUs can only be applied to certain fares (YBH Economy, WT+ and up) and are not free: they require miles depending on distance. And they don't "clear" in the sense you wait list for them, you need award availability in the cabin you wish to upgrade to. It's up to you to find the seat, not BA.

Certainly, if every BA Gold got 8 one way upgrades per membership year which you could use to upgrade from the cheapest economy into Club and that cleared "100%" of the time, you'd find the CW cabin a lot more crowded.

But thanks for clearing up the upgrade situation on AA. I still don't change my view that it's a lot easier for an AA EXP to find their way into the business cabin through an upgrade.

Blueboys999

It's not that simple but I think I see the point you're making.

The WT+ option on BA prevents an upgrade to J from Y but, as AA don't have that, it's standard with them so I suppose far easier.

Moomba

No it isn't.

GUF2 is achieved after 2500 TP is it not? The SWU are capacity controlled just like a GUF2. The GUF2 is the equivalent of 4 SWU as the SWU is only one way.

Have you looked at how hard it is to get EXP? On my current schedule of flying for this year I will have earned a GUF2 by August and still only be 3/4 of the way to retaining EXP.

BahrainLad

??? You can only use the GUF2 for one return trip. Yes, if there are two of you on the booking you can both travel, but for a single flyer it's not ideal (BA don't...currently...let you split it into 2 x GUF1s).

Compare to AA where your 8 SWUs can upgrade you "100% of the time" on each sector in four round trips.

If I could see CW availability on "100%" of the flights I wanted to take, then the WT+ cabin and I would not be such good friends.

Moomba

Yes rubbish isn't it. Nice of BAEC to discriminate against those who choose to travel alone.

One person's experience does not mean all SWU holders achieve 100% success.
I have been on flights when my SWU didn't clear and had to stay in Y.

Hyperacusis

You earn one GUF2 at 2500 and a second at 3500. It is also easier in almost all circumstances to achieve BA Gold vs. AA EXP. I documented this in another thread with the old TP structure. It is even easier now with the new TP structure.

Another way of stating the above: MFUs can be applied to all fares, except discount economy. SWUs and Miles+Copay on AA used to be the same way until recently.

Neither are Miles+Copay on AA, which is the AA equivalent of BA MFUs. In fact, Miles+Copay are more expensive than MFUs in general, as I have documented in other threads.

This is irrelevant since AA frequently holds inventory until the last minute before clearing your upgrade. AA either sells the seat or upgrades you (at the cost of an SWU or Miles+Copay) if they can't. BA lets the seat go empty and gains nothing.

AA invented revenue management. They are very, very good at it, for a reason. They will only let a seat go to an upgraded if they are 100% sure if they cannot sell it. I can confirm this both from personal experience, and from conversations that I have had with those involved in AA revenue management.

FT is a very small sample, and the '100%' number is misleading. The AA EXP community uses EF to search out flights with easy upgrades. Many non-FTers have much lower upgrade rates. A number of people I worked with would frequently fail to clear on JFK-LHR, for instance. I have only ever waitlisted SWUs twice, and cleared both times. I always ensure the inventory is available prior to booking, which is no different than MFUing on BA.

That may be your view, but as an AA EXP who uses SWUs internationally frequently who has a sizable BAEC account for MFU purposes only, I find it just as easy to upgrade on BA as I do on AA. MFUs are very, very cheap, which is why they are so popular here. I have flown just as many MFUed BA flights as I have flown SWUed AA flights.

Is it not true that GUF2s can also be applied to award and MFUed tickets? To me, that would more than make up for the above restriction.

Hyperacusis

As an addendum to my last post above....

There seems to be a lot of discussion on AA's long haul upgrade instruments vs. BA's, and this seems to have led to the perception that it is significantly easier to upgrade on AA than on BA. In my experience, this is not true. This is my comparison of AA vs. BA on upgrades for long haul travel.

AA eVIPs/SWUs vs. BA GUF2:
- EXPs earn 8 per year, Golds earn one at 2500 TP, and one at 3500 TP
- Each SWU can be used for one person, one way (so 4 are used for a round trip for two, the GUF equivalent)
- SWUs can be applied to any paid fare, GUF2 can be applied to ALL fares, including award and upgraded tickets (please correct if I am wrong here)
- SWUs can be waitlisted, GUF2 cannot
- Finding "C" AA upgrade inventory is usually a more difficult than finding "U" award/upgrade inventory on BA
- In most scenarios, EXP is more difficult to earn than BA Gold, but it is more difficult to earn 2500 and 3500 TPs

Result: AA 'wins', since SWUs are easier to earn, and usually easier to use, though GUF2 has its advantages as well


AA Miles+Copay vs. BA MFU:
- M+C can be used on all fares but cost varies depending on fare, MFU applies to all except discount economy
- M+C is generally more expensive than MFU both in terms of miles and cash outlay, and WT+ > CW MFUs are generally incredible deals
- M+C can be waitlisted, MFU cannot
- M+C and MFUs use the same upgrade inventories as SWU and GUF2 respectively, so the same rule applies as above
- M+C will often not clear if waitlisted if you do not have status, since waitlist priority depends on status
- If you are Silver/Gold on BA and MFUing WT+ > CW, you will often earn back the miles you spent on the MFU just from the COS and status bonus. The same cannot be said for Miles+Copay. Your miles spend is more than what you would earn back.

Result: BA MFU wins handily. There is a reason FTers rarely use Miles+Copay.

Bottom line: SWUs are easy to use and prevalent on AA, MFUs are easy to use and prevalent on BA. Upgraders exist and are very much prevalent on both airlines.

Short haul is a whole different issue, and it is without question much easier to upgrade on AA short haul than on BA. But then again, is CE really THAT much better than ET?

Swanhunter

However, that does depend on what you value in a product. For me, 90% of a J cabin is a flat bed for a good nights sleep. While much else that AA offers is decent, the bed is - for me - a total fail.

DYKWIA

I switched from BA to CO a couple of years ago when I was working near EWR (they status matched me, and I could take the direct MAN-EWR flights).

I feared the worst, but was very pleasantly surprised. Most of my flights were in Y, but I was always able to book the first row (unlimited leg room) - and not have to pay �50 for the privilege.

Food was similar to BA. The IFE has more choice on BA, but was more reliable on CO.

I flew in J a couple of times, and it beat BA by a long way. The food and service were great, and the new J seat is pretty good.

BA304

Hyperacusis, I agree with you in that I think MFUs are too cheap. In my opinion both SWUs and MFUs discourage people who would pay for J from actually paying.

In the MFU case it's possible to create a self sustaining miles balance to allow one to MFU every flight. However to me it seems that the problem is worse for SWUs because EXPs clearly have a sizeable travel budget and are the prime market for J fares whereas anyone who travels once per year and earns their miles at the supermarket (and is unlikely to pay for J) can MFU.

What I'm trying to say is that it seems the proportion of people who would pay for J but don't is higher for SWUs than for MFUs.