GUWonder

There's a contradiction in the above, as it is possible for a company to use user community members as consultants while not having enough humility to believe that user community input could significantly improve its planned program. Message control efforts are undertaken in various ways, including by doing just that: use user community members as consultants while not having enough humility to believe that user community input could significantly improve its planned program. The reason to do that is to improve the messaging while still getting the company-desired outcome with lesser amount of resistance from the user community.

"Improving" the messaging over a planned program (and/or program change) is not the same thing as improving a planned program (and/or program change).

Cap'n Benj

YAY!

All can still upgrade cheaply, those on the West Coast, Hungary, wherever, which is widely seen as the best use of BA miles, flat redemptions make no sense whatsoever, when you can pay just a few hundred quid on top of the taxes you'd pay anyway and 1/4 of the miles, you're mad if you use your avios any other way (bar maybe if you have a 2-4-1, even then probably only in F)

GUWonder

Miles for upgrades (on regular paid tickets) are so "widely seen as the best use of BA miles" that most BA customers aren't even aware of the option and thus mainly redeem miles (when they can) for things other than upgrading regular paid tickets?

MFUs have never yielded me the highest returns per BA mile that I have gotten from using BA miles in other ways, but glad it works for some minority of BA customers (even myself from time to time).

Cap'n Benj

Obv depends where you're wanting to travel I guess, if its long haul, actually on BA, I think for most it will always be the best bang you can get for your avios

nsx

Even if FTers were informed under NDA that BA planned to hide the ball, it does not follow that the end result would have been any better if FTers had not been informed (because they refused to execute the NDA). Why? First, because FTers under NDA were in a better position to argue for improvements in the new program and in the transition. Second, for all we know, BA's original plan could have been much worse than what we saw on November 16.

You can't open the box on this Schrodinger's cat without risking killing it. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead.

Paulchili

Here you go assuming again. Some of us barely pay any taxes at all on redemptions
My CX F from SFO to HKG and CX J HKG to CMB (with AA miles - not Chase BA miles) cost exactly $27.40 in taxes (and, BTW, fewer AA miles than it would have been in Adios, even pre-Nov 16th, never mind post Nov 16th). Why would I pay for a J ticket and use AA miles to upgrade to F (even if I could on CX) if I can pay only $27.40 for the entire trip?
So, maybe Adios is not the best FF program out there (or even within OW)?

Paralytic

I don't think any FFP can say its the best out there. However, there will be programmes that are a better fit than others to each individual's flying pattern.

The trick is for each individual to choose the one that is best for their flying pattern and not just the one that gives away the most miles for free; that's the point I think many people don't get.

matthandy

Ok, so now it's a conspiracy, and the moderators are implicated. Wow.

I was trying to think of a change to the BAEC that would affect me the most to see if I could put myself in the position of those of you who have been badly affected. For me it would have to be a loss of lounge access for Silver members. If this had happened I'd be pretty annoyed. I'd complain and moan, but in the end, I'd very much doubt that the decision would be reversed. So what would I do? Stop flying BA. Would I post 100's of posts on the matter, scream blue murder and accuse FT of being some dictatorial organisation full of spies working for the airline? No, as I'd have better things to do with my life than that.

And, for those of you saying that telling people to find another airline is defending BA, it's not. It's stating the obvious, the most likely outcome and something that you can do to register you new disinterest in the company.

Paulchili

Oh, believe me, I have no problem choosing which one is best for me.
If you think BAEC (& Chase) were generous in giving miles away, you are mistaken.
I recently took advantage of a Citi AA promotion for 75K miles x 3 (Visa, Amex and Business Visa) - that's a total of 225K miles. Multiply that by 2 for my DW and you got 450K miles - and better (as in fewer miles required) redemption rates and much lower taxes, + no YQs.
Not to mention that churning was and still is possible with Citi (under certain circumstances)
BAEC is not even close second in that contest.
So, yes, AA fits my flying pattern and free miles give away by far the best.

Crampedin13A

So the answer for you is obviously AA Advantage so why care about BA going forward? AA doesn't work for me because I have no intention of ever flying to or in the U.S. and my OW travels are strictly Toronto to Europe so BA works great as my OW FFP.
I'm sure the vast majority of North Americans would be better using AA as their OW programme though. I would be interested to know where all the people who say they are leaving Avios are going to? Perhaps a poll on this forum is in order or a thread to help others make a decision?

Paulchili

I don't - I just have to figure out the best way to use up my current remaining Adios
But that does not mean that I have to be either happy or pleased about the way this transition was handled by BA - and I am neither.
In particular, I object to the lack of detail and clarity before the changes and the immediate implementation of the changes without a grace period.
All of these could have been handled better by BA management, IMO.
However, it is what it is and I will try to make lemonade from my remaining lemons.

GUWonder

I'm not so sure about that. BA's short-haul redemption tickets on AA and AS flights are earned at a far faster pace from flight activity credited to BA's program than if those same flights were credited to AA's program; and rapid redemption fees are not (at least for now) applicable to redemption tickets using BA miles.

Cap'n Benj

I'm not talking about money spent on redemptions, I'm talking savings per mile. You could get 6 return mfus with 150,000 miles

Picking random dates in may its �950 in premium economy �3000 in business, LAX-LHR return, that's �2,000 you save per flight, $3000, so $15,000 saved for 150,000 miles

If a Cathay F flight is more than $15,000 I'd be surprised, then of course you need to take into account the fact that you've earned 50,000 miles on your MFU trips, so another $6,000 worth of savings! Suddenly your 600 dollars saved on taxes look a bit meaningless against $6000+ saved on actual fare!

Obviously the above depends on your flying patterns and I'll admit that unless you want to fly to Europe, there is no flexibility at all in the above eg, it does go to prove though that even west coaster can still get great value from their miles

Take your wife to Paris for a week in business for $3000, then take her on a nice low mileage trip to Hawaii and then still have enough miles left over for a quick trip to Vegas with a couple of buddies out 100k Avios. Hardly no value is it!

Globaliser

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