CE board at your leisure - forcing your way past the plebs
Jun 21, 2010, 2:58 am
#136
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My scepticism with accountants is due to the fact that this what led to the demise of our London - Plymouth - Bristol - Newquay service and London - Inverness route. the revenue from the Long Haul connecting passengers was never included in the revenue calculations for these routes (often the LGW-PLH/NQY/BRS or LGW-INV sectors were included free of charge on a longhaul ticket.)
When some pencil sharpening needed to be done, the red rings were drawn around these routes as being "loss making" - a stretch of the truth by a country mile!
When some pencil sharpening needed to be done, the red rings were drawn around these routes as being "loss making" - a stretch of the truth by a country mile!
Jun 21, 2010, 4:26 am
#137
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Let's not forget the glitch that for a while meant that anything regional being added onto a CE/NCW booking was adding on a full fare regional (c. £300), so that with a discounted I class to Europe, the regional 'add-on' was more than the CE fare..
Jun 21, 2010, 4:45 am
#138
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I had the'pleasure' of travelling domestic during the week
The new Embraers are terrible for this, since the overheads are tiny and at the front they are mostly taken up with medical equipment, crew bags and gear for the safety demo. And then when you add in the "3 carry on" brigade, you are better off a few rows back where at least you have the space under the seat in front.
This morning on a "very full" A320 - the captain's words: how can it be very full? It is just "full" - passengers in row 1 were wandering past me in row 6 to stow their bags.
Jun 21, 2010, 4:49 am
#139
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Welcome to my weekly commute. I am starting to fall out of love with the front row, as you need to be one of the first on to guarantee getting your laptop bag above your head, as opposed to somewhere behind you.
The new Embraers are terrible for this, since the overheads are tiny and at the front they are mostly taken up with medical equipment, crew bags and gear for the safety demo. And then when you add in the "3 carry on" brigade, you are better off a few rows back where at least you have the space under the seat in front.
This morning on a "very full" A320 - the captain's words: how can it be very full? It is just "full" - passengers in row 1 were wandering past me in row 6 to stow their bags.
The new Embraers are terrible for this, since the overheads are tiny and at the front they are mostly taken up with medical equipment, crew bags and gear for the safety demo. And then when you add in the "3 carry on" brigade, you are better off a few rows back where at least you have the space under the seat in front.
This morning on a "very full" A320 - the captain's words: how can it be very full? It is just "full" - passengers in row 1 were wandering past me in row 6 to stow their bags.
This is the reason I rarely book row 1 on CE flights. I don't notice any more legroom, the only advantage is that there is noone to recline their seat while you are eating
Jun 21, 2010, 5:44 am
#140
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Yeah, not being able to book row 1 has never been a hardship, as I prefer second or third row of CE, since you have the under the seat space for your stuff if the overhead is full.
Oh, for the days when we were restricted to one carry on
Oh, for the days when we were restricted to one carry on
Jun 21, 2010, 5:58 am
#142
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... of course if Priority Luggage actually worked (another CE feature advertised but rarely delivered), then there may be less desire to haul all one's worldly goods on board the aircraft as "hand luggage" and everyone would get to use the overhead above their seat.
Jun 21, 2010, 6:00 am
#143
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Jun 21, 2010, 6:37 am
#144
Join Date: Sep 2002
Programs: Mucci Gold Class
Posts: 2,045
If the concerns to get on first are purely about luggage stowage then this is a different matter, although equally easily solved. Firstly by the ground staff checking the size of all bags and refusing anything too big as cabin luggage. Secondly if the cabin crew know that CE passengers will come on last, it's very easy for someone to wait in the last row of Club ...
The problem is waaay worse in ET.
So the only way to be sure your bags are anywhere nearby or - god forbid - don't get taken down to the hold, is to get on first.
For me, this is 90% of the benefit of the US 'F boards first' benefit.
And just for the reference of posters here who have referred to this here: the F boards first on AA is rigidly and absolutely enforced, which is great. It is for pax traveling in F only and does not include elites in coach. These latter board in Group 1 while First is a group on it own. AA recently introduced Priotity Aaccess which is similar to the fast track service for F, J and elites on BA. You will be pleased to hear Priority Aaccess is every bit as erratic and sloppily enforced as it's BA equivalent.
Jun 21, 2010, 8:31 am
#145
Join Date: Jan 2007
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 104
Problem is: even with strict enforcement of hand baggage rules, there simply is not enough overhead real estate on short haul to accommodate all the Han baggage. Even in CE, pitch is 34 in and 2 standard bags from the a seated below take up 36 inches, and this is without stowing 'personal items' -standard width 8in - play between bags and locker dividers, as well as terminal purchases (duty free bags) and the inevitable collection of jackets.
I know, I know, I'm going over old ground and this is just one of those rules that airlines simply won't bother to enforce. Guess we just need another security "incident" to get a few weeks of quick boarding...
Jun 21, 2010, 10:35 am
#146
Join Date: Apr 2008
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To sum up our collective frustrations (Collective Rant)
Well, I've read with interest all 4 pages of posts on this thread. I agree wholeheartedly with the main thrust of the points made, but above all else, what interests me most about this thread is the enormous amount of pent up pain & frustration which seems to ooze from every pore of every FF and CE passenger who has expressed an opinion. FWIW, I too feel my blood pressure rise (oft to boiling point) on this one topic, and I say that as a S/H FF and now GCH with over 60 sectors last lear mixed mainly between CE and ET. Indeed, reading the last 4 pages has without doubt seen my blood pressure rise significantly, so in the interests of all our collective coronary health, let me get a few things off my chest....
If I had my way, I would bring Willie Walsh in front of a panel of these long suffering folk and get him ,in person, to justify why his management & staff are incapable of the simple, near cost-less, easy-to-implement-with -the-minimum-of-training suggestions contained in this thread. I would also provide a set of stocks and large quantities of bird seed and cookies to lob at the esteemed gentleman in a vain attempt to get some common sense through his skull and, more to the point, some action!
There was a time a few years back when flying was an enjoyable experience, and one which I looked forward to. Nowadays, thanks to the ever increasing security and general challenge from the budget carriers, the service has been eroded to a level which would have left the old British Rail red with embarrassment. While there are some areas of the service which are still up to scratch - the lounges (at least in T5) which are still better than most other carriers, priority check in, L/H CW & F seats, and about 1 CC team in 5 who actually still provide friendly, attentive, smiling service - it is often the shoddy handling of the "little things" that really wear you down. As has been pointed out in so many threads so many times before, if BA could only just sort out half of the little details, they could be a country mile ahead of the competitors. It would hardly cost a penny, and the journeys of those of us who spend very substantial amounts of time travelling (and hence, very substantial amounts of money with BA on non-bucket fares) would be made immeasurably better. I, for one, would happily pay a premium for that, even out of my own (not my company's) pocket.
I am not some idealist who thinks that air travel is ever likely to once again be an enjoyable experience. But I do think a travel experience in which the majority of the pain is "numbed" and where from entering the terminal building at one end to leaving it at the other, there are no niggles that really get my blood pressure up is achievable. And it would start, Willie old boy, with you paying attention to this thread.
So here is my challenge to you, Mr Walsh:
1) Introduce a priority boarding system with:
3) If you do insist on the laughable practice of putting "priority" tags on CE or status pax bags, PLEASE try to ensure that they are first onto the baggage belt. Perhaps a member of CC or Ground Staff should have as part of their duties the responsibility to remind baggage handlers of this every time they park up. Better still, MEASURE whether this is happening. Either that or supply your CE or status pax with some blood-pressure tablets. Or stop using the tags. Either way, it will be pretty much free to implement
4) Spend at least one hour a day reading the contents of this forum. When it comes to finding good ideas on how to improve your service, these guys are a lot more switched on and down to earth than most overpaid consultants. And come to think of it, the advice is FREE
5) Grow some b@lls, get yourself a login name, and try talking to us. While HIDDY's wife may try to kick you in the nuts (or is that bird seed?!), most of just want to help improve your service. And we'll do it free
6) Find out who "bealine" is and offer her the position of "Director of Customer Satisfaction & Delight". Anyone who takes the time and trouble to pass back a passport " with your nation's emblem uppermost and facing you" shows the kind devotion to customer service and the importance of small details which should be what makes BA a company to be proud of. Oh, and by the way, following this advice on turning a passport in this way is free. So is smiling. And calling me Mr Arcticfox.
5) Pleeeease do something about the bird seed and inedible cookie. While it might not be free (though cost neutral must be achievable), if you are going to insult us by trying to make out that the miserable apology of a snack you offer us on a 700 Euro economy return, hour & a quarter flight is truly "full service", then at least make a half-hearted attempt to choose something edible. Even the birds in my garden in the heart of our coldest winter were singularly unimpressed. I kid you not.
Well, I think I've vented my spleen enough for all of us for one day. Time to brace myself for tomorrow's STR>LHR. At least I always get a nice smile and a personal welcome from the lovely lady who mans the lounge there. Like I say, it is the little things that count. Now where did I leave the vallium...
If I had my way, I would bring Willie Walsh in front of a panel of these long suffering folk and get him ,in person, to justify why his management & staff are incapable of the simple, near cost-less, easy-to-implement-with -the-minimum-of-training suggestions contained in this thread. I would also provide a set of stocks and large quantities of bird seed and cookies to lob at the esteemed gentleman in a vain attempt to get some common sense through his skull and, more to the point, some action!
There was a time a few years back when flying was an enjoyable experience, and one which I looked forward to. Nowadays, thanks to the ever increasing security and general challenge from the budget carriers, the service has been eroded to a level which would have left the old British Rail red with embarrassment. While there are some areas of the service which are still up to scratch - the lounges (at least in T5) which are still better than most other carriers, priority check in, L/H CW & F seats, and about 1 CC team in 5 who actually still provide friendly, attentive, smiling service - it is often the shoddy handling of the "little things" that really wear you down. As has been pointed out in so many threads so many times before, if BA could only just sort out half of the little details, they could be a country mile ahead of the competitors. It would hardly cost a penny, and the journeys of those of us who spend very substantial amounts of time travelling (and hence, very substantial amounts of money with BA on non-bucket fares) would be made immeasurably better. I, for one, would happily pay a premium for that, even out of my own (not my company's) pocket.
I am not some idealist who thinks that air travel is ever likely to once again be an enjoyable experience. But I do think a travel experience in which the majority of the pain is "numbed" and where from entering the terminal building at one end to leaving it at the other, there are no niggles that really get my blood pressure up is achievable. And it would start, Willie old boy, with you paying attention to this thread.
So here is my challenge to you, Mr Walsh:
1) Introduce a priority boarding system with:
- 2 Queues
- The same number of gate staff
- A clear policy that all priority groups (infirm/young kids/status/CE/F class passengers) use that lane and get a proper "Priority" service
- Make clear announcements about boarding priority and train your staff to politely, but firmly, enforce the rules. Consistently. If you need any help with how to do this, ask Stelios. He'd probably tell you for free (though he might not teach the part about being polite)
- I reiterate, TRAIN your staff, REWARD those that provide outstanding service and DISCIPLINE those that fail miserably. And don't give any lame excuses about third parties at small outposts who fail in this. Even if they are not BA staff, they are your agents and the customer-facing representatives of your company. They should be every bit as professional as BA staff, or they should not be employed. To try and say differently is, as Stephen Fry so eloquently put it, to talk "@rse gravy".
2) Get at least one of the CC on board to police (as far as possible) the use of CE luggage bins. Stickers on bins for the forst few rows would be a nice touch, and cabin announcements would be helpful too (and come to think of it, free)- The same number of gate staff
- A clear policy that all priority groups (infirm/young kids/status/CE/F class passengers) use that lane and get a proper "Priority" service
- Make clear announcements about boarding priority and train your staff to politely, but firmly, enforce the rules. Consistently. If you need any help with how to do this, ask Stelios. He'd probably tell you for free (though he might not teach the part about being polite)
- I reiterate, TRAIN your staff, REWARD those that provide outstanding service and DISCIPLINE those that fail miserably. And don't give any lame excuses about third parties at small outposts who fail in this. Even if they are not BA staff, they are your agents and the customer-facing representatives of your company. They should be every bit as professional as BA staff, or they should not be employed. To try and say differently is, as Stephen Fry so eloquently put it, to talk "@rse gravy".
3) If you do insist on the laughable practice of putting "priority" tags on CE or status pax bags, PLEASE try to ensure that they are first onto the baggage belt. Perhaps a member of CC or Ground Staff should have as part of their duties the responsibility to remind baggage handlers of this every time they park up. Better still, MEASURE whether this is happening. Either that or supply your CE or status pax with some blood-pressure tablets. Or stop using the tags. Either way, it will be pretty much free to implement
4) Spend at least one hour a day reading the contents of this forum. When it comes to finding good ideas on how to improve your service, these guys are a lot more switched on and down to earth than most overpaid consultants. And come to think of it, the advice is FREE
5) Grow some b@lls, get yourself a login name, and try talking to us. While HIDDY's wife may try to kick you in the nuts (or is that bird seed?!), most of just want to help improve your service. And we'll do it free
6) Find out who "bealine" is and offer her the position of "Director of Customer Satisfaction & Delight". Anyone who takes the time and trouble to pass back a passport " with your nation's emblem uppermost and facing you" shows the kind devotion to customer service and the importance of small details which should be what makes BA a company to be proud of. Oh, and by the way, following this advice on turning a passport in this way is free. So is smiling. And calling me Mr Arcticfox.
5) Pleeeease do something about the bird seed and inedible cookie. While it might not be free (though cost neutral must be achievable), if you are going to insult us by trying to make out that the miserable apology of a snack you offer us on a 700 Euro economy return, hour & a quarter flight is truly "full service", then at least make a half-hearted attempt to choose something edible. Even the birds in my garden in the heart of our coldest winter were singularly unimpressed. I kid you not.
Well, I think I've vented my spleen enough for all of us for one day. Time to brace myself for tomorrow's STR>LHR. At least I always get a nice smile and a personal welcome from the lovely lady who mans the lounge there. Like I say, it is the little things that count. Now where did I leave the vallium...
Jun 21, 2010, 11:04 am
#147
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Glasgow
Programs: BA Blue
Posts: 509
Jun 21, 2010, 11:11 am
#148
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wales (Home base), Germany (Work base) & around the world!
Programs: BA Gold, LH FTL, Priority Club Gold
Posts: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticfox
6) Find out who "bealine" is and offer her...
I have to say I made the same assumption initially, but I think it's actually 'him'.
With my sincerest heartfelt and most grovelling apologies to bealine if I have inadvertantly made an inappropriate gender assumption.....
That said, Willie should still listen to the advice!
Originally Posted by arcticfox
6) Find out who "bealine" is and offer her...
I have to say I made the same assumption initially, but I think it's actually 'him'.
With my sincerest heartfelt and most grovelling apologies to bealine if I have inadvertantly made an inappropriate gender assumption.....
That said, Willie should still listen to the advice!
Jun 21, 2010, 11:55 am
#149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticfox
6) Find out who "bealine" is and offer her...
I have to say I made the same assumption initially, but I think it's actually 'him'.
With my sincerest heartfelt and most grovelling apologies to bealine if I have inadvertantly made an inappropriate gender assumption.....
That said, Willie should still listen to the advice!
Originally Posted by arcticfox
6) Find out who "bealine" is and offer her...
I have to say I made the same assumption initially, but I think it's actually 'him'.
With my sincerest heartfelt and most grovelling apologies to bealine if I have inadvertantly made an inappropriate gender assumption.....
That said, Willie should still listen to the advice!
Oh Dear when will they get this right. It's not that difficult but ultimately they should call the Club passengers either first - or last and ensure that the bins are not used by anyone else. Trouble is that with two on the fron door and one down the back it is not easy. You can go on taking crew members of and you have less eyes watching for this sort of thing.
xx
Jun 21, 2010, 1:24 pm
#150
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wales (Home base), Germany (Work base) & around the world!
Programs: BA Gold, LH FTL, Priority Club Gold
Posts: 352
