The 'FUTURE OF BMI' thread, the LH takeover, & what it might mean for Diamond Club...
Mar 14, 2008, 2:54 pm
#152
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Marylebone
Programs: BA/BD Gold, UA Silver
Posts: 1,873
I am yet another person who wishes BD would just stay the same. However, if we are all convinced its impossible, I'd take nearly anybody but SRB!! Their program is stingy and their destinations are limited.
Mar 14, 2008, 3:09 pm
#153
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SE1, London
Posts: 23,443
I doubt VS have pockets deep enough to afford BD. While no-one knows for sure, there are rumours that SQ want to offload their stake as performance isn't great and there are certainly plenty of cost cutting measures in evidence.
My bet? LH will pocket BD.
My bet? LH will pocket BD.
Mar 14, 2008, 3:09 pm
#154
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: British Airways Executive Club, United Mileage Plus & bmi Diamond Club
Posts: 1,427
Stay the same? As an airline, I want to see them grow alone! I want them to challenge BA on more routes & build up a network like they had 10 years ago. I would also quite like a long haul network that heads in a westerly direction. Why? Becuase it will spark a competitive reaction out of BA in particular, & the consumer only benefits from the jostling.
For that reason, perhaps a merger of VS & BD, combining the best of them both (Diamond Club, *A, Short haul network - Long Haul network, full service, international name) then BA will have a real competitor. I can fully understand why you'd be cautious over BD joining the Flying Club since it is extremely stingy compared to DC. However, I see some real benefits to the consumer overall if Virgin took over. BA would simply grow.
I would riot if Lufthansa took control, since they would have too much of a stranglehold on the european market & it would be in German hands. They would use it to damaging affect to everyone.
Cheers,
For that reason, perhaps a merger of VS & BD, combining the best of them both (Diamond Club, *A, Short haul network - Long Haul network, full service, international name) then BA will have a real competitor. I can fully understand why you'd be cautious over BD joining the Flying Club since it is extremely stingy compared to DC. However, I see some real benefits to the consumer overall if Virgin took over. BA would simply grow.
I would riot if Lufthansa took control, since they would have too much of a stranglehold on the european market & it would be in German hands. They would use it to damaging affect to everyone.
Cheers,
Mar 14, 2008, 4:06 pm
#157
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold (and other non-status plastic)
Posts: 1,889
For that reason, perhaps a merger of VS & BD, combining the best of them both (Diamond Club, *A, Short haul network - Long Haul network, full service, international name) then BA will have a real competitor. I can fully understand why you'd be cautious over BD joining the Flying Club since it is extremely stingy compared to DC. However, I see some real benefits to the consumer overall if Virgin took over. BA would simply grow.
I would riot if Lufthansa took control, since they would have too much of a stranglehold on the european market & it would be in German hands. They would use it to damaging affect to everyone.
I would riot if Lufthansa took control, since they would have too much of a stranglehold on the european market & it would be in German hands. They would use it to damaging affect to everyone.
(1) VS, if it could afford bmi, would have no intention of maintaining DC, *A or a short haul network. I can guarantee that Brussels, Beirut and Bishkek will be cancelled faster than you can say Castle Donington
(2) It's got nothing to do with "real benefits to the consumer", this thread is about the best interest of those diamond club members, who currently keep bmi afloat. And I think most of us (for the reasons outlined above) would prefer bmi to be part of either BA or LH
(3) In any case, in terms of benefits to Heathrow, I'm sure it's better to have 3 strong players (BA, VS and LH/BD), or indeed 2 players with a decent choice of routes (BA with bmi's mid haul network, plus VS on the most important routes), than 2 copycat airlines playing constant tag with each other (BA plus VS with BD's slots reallocated so that VS can go head-to-head with BA on yet more long haul routes)
And, presumbly, since you're rioting about the, err, German takeover, then you're rioting about the Franco-Dutchies taking over LCY, or the Irish stranglehold of the European LCC market?!
Mar 15, 2008, 5:38 am
#158
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2
Agree!
The EU competition commission should take that into account. My family is Polish and it is sad to see what Lufthansa did to Polish Airlines LOT. They put the airline in a washing machine at 95degrees and shrunk it like a woolen jumper. Literally striping the airline of its large planes and converting it to small regional jets to serve as a feeder for Lufthansa. From an EU perspective it is fair for BA to buy BMI and control IBERIA. Why should BA loose it’s slots at LHR if Luftwaffe and AIRFROG/KLM/MAFIA AIR control EUROPE.
Mar 15, 2008, 7:46 am
#160
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London
Posts: 3,459
I've thought for a while that IB will go to either BA or LH and that bmi will go to the other. In the case of BA taking bmi, this could be as a result of horse-trading between BA and LH following exercise of its call option by LH. BA's interest is bmi would be purely to gain the LHR slots.
I think the key to BA's intentions is shown by Willie Walsh's recent statements to the effect that he's not after growth for growth's sake or in keeping up with the (von) Joneses - he's on the record as wanting a 'transformational' deal. Quite what that means is where the interest and the speculation lie. Is BA/AA back on the cards? Would BA/IB be transformational? How about acquisition of bmi's slots and moving the LGW operation up to LHR? Who knows! 'Transformational' may even involve thinking the unthinkable : LH/BA, anyone?
From a personal point of view, I wish bmi and DC could stay as they are. Realistically, however, it just isn't going to happen. I suppose I'd currently describe myself as a wobbling BA loyalist
I joined DC principally to hedge my bets and in the process discovered a nice airline. I hope it doesn't disappear before my eyes just as I'm getting somewhere. What may look foolish in retrospect is that I was an LH SEN, but have not been taking that programme seriously in recent years and will lose all status early next year.
Everyone is agreed that, whoever the future owner of bmi is, they are unlikely to have any interest in bmi Regional. After the possible demise of DC, this is perhaps the saddest aspect of all. I really like those little Embraers and it will be terrible if the last full-service option on routes like EDI to MAN / BRU / CPH goes the way of the others.
Interesting times indeed.
I think the key to BA's intentions is shown by Willie Walsh's recent statements to the effect that he's not after growth for growth's sake or in keeping up with the (von) Joneses - he's on the record as wanting a 'transformational' deal. Quite what that means is where the interest and the speculation lie. Is BA/AA back on the cards? Would BA/IB be transformational? How about acquisition of bmi's slots and moving the LGW operation up to LHR? Who knows! 'Transformational' may even involve thinking the unthinkable : LH/BA, anyone?
From a personal point of view, I wish bmi and DC could stay as they are. Realistically, however, it just isn't going to happen. I suppose I'd currently describe myself as a wobbling BA loyalist
I joined DC principally to hedge my bets and in the process discovered a nice airline. I hope it doesn't disappear before my eyes just as I'm getting somewhere. What may look foolish in retrospect is that I was an LH SEN, but have not been taking that programme seriously in recent years and will lose all status early next year.Everyone is agreed that, whoever the future owner of bmi is, they are unlikely to have any interest in bmi Regional. After the possible demise of DC, this is perhaps the saddest aspect of all. I really like those little Embraers and it will be terrible if the last full-service option on routes like EDI to MAN / BRU / CPH goes the way of the others.
Interesting times indeed.
Mar 15, 2008, 8:41 am
#161
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2
My uncle worked for LOT and Lufthansa def. has control albeit not officially. LOT's stratergy is now simply to feed Lufthansa and have the odd transatlantic. When they were linked to BA the stratergy was similar to Malev - to expand. Fair enough, Lufthansa wants to make money but their practices are anti-competitive.
Mar 15, 2008, 12:22 pm
#162
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,389
My uncle worked for LOT and Lufthansa def. has control albeit not officially. LOT's stratergy is now simply to feed Lufthansa and have the odd transatlantic. When they were linked to BA the stratergy was similar to Malev - to expand. Fair enough, Lufthansa wants to make money but their practices are anti-competitive.
Mar 15, 2008, 4:11 pm
#164
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Capetown
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Plat, IHG and Hilton Diamond, LH SEN, BA Gold
Posts: 10,167
I would not consider AB to be a low cost carrier. They currently have a fleet of 140 aircraft (this is three times the size of BMI), they are a full service airline (not like buying sandwiches on BMI) and fly intercon. We feel the competition on the German market. However, BMI is by far to small to be real competitor on the UK market.
Mar 15, 2008, 4:20 pm
#165
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Capetown
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Plat, IHG and Hilton Diamond, LH SEN, BA Gold
Posts: 10,167
Agree!
The EU competition commission should take that into account. My family is Polish and it is sad to see what Lufthansa did to Polish Airlines LOT. They put the airline in a washing machine at 95degrees and shrunk it like a woolen jumper. Literally striping the airline of its large planes and converting it to small regional jets to serve as a feeder for Lufthansa. From an EU perspective it is fair for BA to buy BMI and control IBERIA. Why should BA loose it’s slots at LHR if Luftwaffe and AIRFROG/KLM/MAFIA AIR control EUROPE.
The EU competition commission should take that into account. My family is Polish and it is sad to see what Lufthansa did to Polish Airlines LOT. They put the airline in a washing machine at 95degrees and shrunk it like a woolen jumper. Literally striping the airline of its large planes and converting it to small regional jets to serve as a feeder for Lufthansa. From an EU perspective it is fair for BA to buy BMI and control IBERIA. Why should BA loose it’s slots at LHR if Luftwaffe and AIRFROG/KLM/MAFIA AIR control EUROPE.