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Old Aug 23, 2012 | 12:00 pm
  #436  
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2006 Estiba Reservada

Managed to find a bottle for R389 ($US195) in Sao Paulo.
Now if it is 5 times as good as the superb 1997 that I paid $US40 for 10 yrs ago I'll be very happy.
I take it this wine is not included in CFK's basket for working out the annual inflation rate of around 9%.
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Old Aug 23, 2012 | 5:04 pm
  #437  
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Originally Posted by 3544quebec
Managed to find a bottle for R389 ($US195) in Sao Paulo.
Now if it is 5 times as good as the superb 1997 that I paid $US40 for 10 yrs ago I'll be very happy.
I take it this wine is not included in CFK's basket for working out the annual inflation rate of around 9%.
Ive said this before... and it seems like you are a numbers person so you will understand the point I will make. The price you paid in US$ 10 years ago for this wine was an accident... it was at a time where all the prices in the Argentine Economy were out of whack. That price is not a reasonable price point, so any comparison to it lack any real relevance.
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Old Aug 23, 2012 | 7:01 pm
  #438  
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Originally Posted by Gaucho100K
Ive said this before... and it seems like you are a numbers person so you will understand the point I will make. The price you paid in US$ 10 years ago for this wine was an accident... it was at a time where all the prices in the Argentine Economy were out of whack. That price is not a reasonable price point, so any comparison to it lack any real relevance.
Forgive me for going off-topic, but this is kind of like the first bottle I ever tasted of Sterling 1978 Reserve Cabernet, which was mis-marked at the same $8.99 as their regular release Cabernet in a Liquor Barn. I might never have tried the Sterling '78 reserve for $30 circa 1982 when it was released, but once I did for $9, it became the benchmark by which I have judged every great Cabernet-based wine I have had since. And I subsequently bought cases of it in both 750s, Magnums, and a Jeroboam of the stuff in auctions (still at ridiculous prices, but closer the the proper price at it's release than that $9 mismark). I still have 1 Magnum and the Jeroboam left. I polished off the last 750 about a year ago, and it was fading, but still great. About 15 years ago, I threw a magnum of it into a large tasting of 1st growth Bordeaux from 1970-1990 as a ringer, and it was by acclamation, the best wine in the tasting.

On that occasion, it cleaned the clocks of 1982 and 1986 Mouton, 1982 and 1985 Lafite, 1983, 1989 and 1990 Margaux, and 1982 Cheval Blanc and 1970 and 1990 Latour, as well as the other ringer, 1985 Sassacaia. Most of these wines that the Sterling put in the shade have occasionally or frequently earned 100 point Parker scores.
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Old Aug 23, 2012 | 7:56 pm
  #439  
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Originally Posted by Gaucho100K
Ive said this before... and it seems like you are a numbers person so you will understand the point I will make. The price you paid in US$ 10 years ago for this wine was an accident... it was at a time where all the prices in the Argentine Economy were out of whack. That price is not a reasonable price point, so any comparison to it lack any real relevance.
And you will understand if I say that prices in Argentina seem to be more often out of whack than in whack . Isn't though a more likely explanation that the wine did not have a strong pedigree 10 yrs ago and even at $40 represented an upper end wine Argentinian wine. Doesn't the huge increase in price reflect more the cult status it has attained rather than the fact that its price was out of whack 10yrs ago? There are plenty of Australian wines and 1 or 2 South African wines I know of that have demonstrated similar price inflation when someone gets on their bandwagon.
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Old Aug 23, 2012 | 8:08 pm
  #440  
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It is simply wrong to confuse Economics 101 with a price anomaly due to the implosion of a Country and its entire Economy. This wine was priced at $40 when the markets were in turmoil, that price was clearly artificial and it did not last as the Peso price adjusted shortly thereafter. I cant see why this is so hard to understand...
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Old Aug 23, 2012 | 8:09 pm
  #441  
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Originally Posted by DJGMaster1
Forgive me for going off-topic, but this is kind of like the first bottle I ever tasted of Sterling 1978 Reserve Cabernet, which was mis-marked at the same $8.99 as their regular release Cabernet in a Liquor Barn. I might never have tried the Sterling '78 reserve for $30 circa 1982 when it was released, but once I did for $9, it became the benchmark by which I have judged every great Cabernet-based wine I have had since. And I subsequently bought cases of it in both 750s, Magnums, and a Jeroboam of the stuff in auctions (still at ridiculous prices, but closer the the proper price at it's release than that $9 mismark). I still have 1 Magnum and the Jeroboam left. I polished off the last 750 about a year ago, and it was fading, but still great. About 15 years ago, I threw a magnum of it into a large tasting of 1st growth Bordeaux from 1970-1990 as a ringer, and it was by acclamation, the best wine in the tasting.

On that occasion, it cleaned the clocks of 1982 and 1986 Mouton, 1982 and 1985 Lafite, 1983, 1989 and 1990 Margaux, and 1982 Cheval Blanc and 1970 and 1990 Latour, as well as the other ringer, 1985 Sassacaia. Most of these wines that the Sterling put in the shade have occasionally or frequently earned 100 point Parker scores.
Congratulations on what seem to have been some great buys.... but Im sorry, I dont understand the comparison. You appear to be telling the story of a wine that at inception was underpriced for the value it offered... so your analogy with the Catena would be...? I guess Im missing something here...
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Old Aug 24, 2012 | 1:55 pm
  #442  
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Originally Posted by Gaucho100K
Congratulations on what seem to have been some great buys.... but Im sorry, I dont understand the comparison. You appear to be telling the story of a wine that at inception was underpriced for the value it offered... so your analogy with the Catena would be...? I guess Im missing something here...
My point was, a screaming bargain is a screaming bargain, but only the taster can decide if the wine is actually worth what it is really supposed to cost - even if, the first time they tried it, it cost far less. In the case of the Sterling '78 reserve Cab, for me, it was. I would probably never have tried it the first time, had I not found it for 1/4 of what it was meant to cost. But even when I did, I recognized that it was great and great value at the PROPER price - and proceeded to buy much more of it at the proper price. Only someone who has had the aforementioned wines can make that determination, but the mismark price is just that - an opportunity to try it as a big bargain. But buying more of it should really only be contemplated are the price the wine properly sells for.

I also bought lots of 1989 and 1990 Classified Growth Bordeaux about 18 years ago, for ~$30-35 USD per bottle. Nowadays, they cost at least 10 times as much - I still have many that I bought for $30-35, but I don't personally feel that they are worth anything near the current prices, in terms of the enjoyment they give me, and I would not buy them at their current prices. But Supply/Demand implies that many other folks WILL buy them at those prices.

One thing that I did NOT mention, and probably should have, is that there is an erroneous Robert Parker writeup out there on the 1978 Sterling Reserve - it seems that he mistakenly believed that Ric Forman had already left Sterling at the time the 1978 Sterling was vinified, and Parker basically trashed everything Sterling had made during the few years post-Forman. But in actual fact, the 1978 Sterling was the last wine Forman made at Sterling, and it is, in fact, a fantastic wine - but it is also a fantastic wine WITHOUT a good Parker score, and a Parker writeup that suggests it might be crap (without his actually having ever tasted it). As such, it remains a screaming bargain at Auctions, despite being a genuinely spectacular wine - because it went under the radar of Robert Parker. If Parker had actually tasted any of the great bottles I have had of this wine, it would cost FAR more than it does.

Last edited by DJGMaster1; Aug 24, 2012 at 2:08 pm
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Old Aug 25, 2012 | 5:39 am
  #443  
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Argentina is making more good Pinot these days... here is a good everyday Pinot Noir made by one of the Catena Siblings...

Padrillos Pinot Noir, Mendoza
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Old Aug 25, 2012 | 11:54 am
  #444  
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Originally Posted by Gaucho100K
Argentina is making more good Pinot these days... here is a good everyday Pinot Noir made by one of the Catena Siblings...

Padrillos Pinot Noir, Mendoza
Are they made to a certain "style" or are they all across the board?
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Old Aug 25, 2012 | 12:03 pm
  #445  
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Originally Posted by Eastbay1K
Are they made to a certain "style" or are they all across the board?
They are all over the place, depending on producer and Terroir. The Mendoza Pinots are mostly power-based, mostly non-Pinot like for my taste, there are some very good ones but you have to search.

Patagonia has probably the best Pinot in the country, but the good stuff is expensive... its made by an Italian Noble Family that has interests in various wine operations. The top stuff is single vineyard, with very very small production and a price to match.
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Old Sep 2, 2012 | 5:08 am
  #446  
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Originally Posted by DJGMaster1
Forgive me for going off-topic, but this is kind of like the first bottle I ever tasted of Sterling 1978 Reserve Cabernet, which was mis-marked at the same $8.99 as their regular release Cabernet in a Liquor Barn. I might never have tried the Sterling '78 reserve for $30 circa 1982 when it was released, but once I did for $9, it became the benchmark by which I have judged every great Cabernet-based wine I have had since. And I subsequently bought cases of it in both 750s, Magnums, and a Jeroboam of the stuff in auctions (still at ridiculous prices, but closer the the proper price at it's release than that $9 mismark). I still have 1 Magnum and the Jeroboam left. I polished off the last 750 about a year ago, and it was fading, but still great. About 15 years ago, I threw a magnum of it into a large tasting of 1st growth Bordeaux from 1970-1990 as a ringer, and it was by acclamation, the best wine in the tasting.

On that occasion, it cleaned the clocks of 1982 and 1986 Mouton, 1982 and 1985 Lafite, 1983, 1989 and 1990 Margaux, and 1982 Cheval Blanc and 1970 and 1990 Latour, as well as the other ringer, 1985 Sassacaia. Most of these wines that the Sterling put in the shade have occasionally or frequently earned 100 point Parker scores.
Similar thing happened to me at a Safeway in Los Gatos, CA. Sterling Reserve Cab 1978 rung up as a bottle deposit - a few cents...

My Liquor Barn episode was a Stags Leap Cask 23 showing up as a bottle of ESB Red Hook for $1.25...

Fun with UPC labels...


...as for clock cleaning those French gems, my recollection and feeble attempts at time displaced comparisons place the the '82 and '86 Moutons as equal yet different. However, I concur with your assessment of the Lafite and Margaux vs. Sterling (for those specific years). The others I've not tried (or don't recall).

Cheers,

-Cyborg
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Old Sep 2, 2012 | 12:33 pm
  #447  
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Originally Posted by cyborg
Similar thing happened to me at a Safeway in Los Gatos, CA. Sterling Reserve Cab 1978 rung up as a bottle deposit - a few cents...

My Liquor Barn episode was a Stags Leap Cask 23 showing up as a bottle of ESB Red Hook for $1.25...

Fun with UPC labels...


...as for clock cleaning those French gems, my recollection and feeble attempts at time displaced comparisons place the the '82 and '86 Moutons as equal yet different. However, I concur with your assessment of the Lafite and Margaux vs. Sterling (for those specific years). The others I've not tried (or don't recall).

Cheers,

-Cyborg
To be fair, at the time, the particular bottle of '82 Mouton was closed up tight as a drum, and the '86 Mouton was the consensus 2nd best wine of the tasting behind the Sterling, even though it was obviously very much on the young side.
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Old Nov 13, 2012 | 4:32 am
  #448  
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While this label is not exactly new to the market... its become my favorite Malbec Syrah blend from Mendoza. F. Flichman Expresiones Malbec Syrah Reserva... ^

After ignoring Flichman as a producer for years, they recently caught my attention with their Cult Parcela 26 Malbec. The new ownership has brought in new talent to the winemaking team and its showing.... the Expresiones is a great wine and offers very good value for money.
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Old Nov 13, 2012 | 7:09 am
  #449  
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well, back in about '75, lafite, latour, etc were under $10. chambertin was 84.50, and corton charlemagne were 80............... a case.!!! so much for yesterday's prices.
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Old Nov 13, 2012 | 9:55 am
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Originally Posted by slawecki
well, back in about '75, lafite, latour, etc were under $10. chambertin was 84.50, and corton charlemagne were 80............... a case.!!! so much for yesterday's prices.
It would be great to go to the Sunday race with Monday's paper, or.....?

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