Argentine Wines 101 and Q&A thread
#436


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2006 Estiba Reservada
Managed to find a bottle for R389 ($US195) in Sao Paulo.
Now if it is 5 times as good as the superb 1997 that I paid $US40 for 10 yrs ago I'll be very happy.
I take it this wine is not included in CFK's basket for working out the annual inflation rate of around 9%.
Now if it is 5 times as good as the superb 1997 that I paid $US40 for 10 yrs ago I'll be very happy.
I take it this wine is not included in CFK's basket for working out the annual inflation rate of around 9%.
#437
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Ive said this before... and it seems like you are a numbers person so you will understand the point I will make. The price you paid in US$ 10 years ago for this wine was an accident... it was at a time where all the prices in the Argentine Economy were out of whack. That price is not a reasonable price point, so any comparison to it lack any real relevance.
#438
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Ive said this before... and it seems like you are a numbers person so you will understand the point I will make. The price you paid in US$ 10 years ago for this wine was an accident... it was at a time where all the prices in the Argentine Economy were out of whack. That price is not a reasonable price point, so any comparison to it lack any real relevance.
On that occasion, it cleaned the clocks of 1982 and 1986 Mouton, 1982 and 1985 Lafite, 1983, 1989 and 1990 Margaux, and 1982 Cheval Blanc and 1970 and 1990 Latour, as well as the other ringer, 1985 Sassacaia. Most of these wines that the Sterling put in the shade have occasionally or frequently earned 100 point Parker scores.
#439


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Ive said this before... and it seems like you are a numbers person so you will understand the point I will make. The price you paid in US$ 10 years ago for this wine was an accident... it was at a time where all the prices in the Argentine Economy were out of whack. That price is not a reasonable price point, so any comparison to it lack any real relevance.
. Isn't though a more likely explanation that the wine did not have a strong pedigree 10 yrs ago and even at $40 represented an upper end wine Argentinian wine. Doesn't the huge increase in price reflect more the cult status it has attained rather than the fact that its price was out of whack 10yrs ago? There are plenty of Australian wines and 1 or 2 South African wines I know of that have demonstrated similar price inflation when someone gets on their bandwagon.
#440
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It is simply wrong to confuse Economics 101 with a price anomaly due to the implosion of a Country and its entire Economy. This wine was priced at $40 when the markets were in turmoil, that price was clearly artificial and it did not last as the Peso price adjusted shortly thereafter. I cant see why this is so hard to understand...
#441
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Forgive me for going off-topic, but this is kind of like the first bottle I ever tasted of Sterling 1978 Reserve Cabernet, which was mis-marked at the same $8.99 as their regular release Cabernet in a Liquor Barn. I might never have tried the Sterling '78 reserve for $30 circa 1982 when it was released, but once I did for $9, it became the benchmark by which I have judged every great Cabernet-based wine I have had since. And I subsequently bought cases of it in both 750s, Magnums, and a Jeroboam of the stuff in auctions (still at ridiculous prices, but closer the the proper price at it's release than that $9 mismark). I still have 1 Magnum and the Jeroboam left. I polished off the last 750 about a year ago, and it was fading, but still great. About 15 years ago, I threw a magnum of it into a large tasting of 1st growth Bordeaux from 1970-1990 as a ringer, and it was by acclamation, the best wine in the tasting.
On that occasion, it cleaned the clocks of 1982 and 1986 Mouton, 1982 and 1985 Lafite, 1983, 1989 and 1990 Margaux, and 1982 Cheval Blanc and 1970 and 1990 Latour, as well as the other ringer, 1985 Sassacaia. Most of these wines that the Sterling put in the shade have occasionally or frequently earned 100 point Parker scores.
On that occasion, it cleaned the clocks of 1982 and 1986 Mouton, 1982 and 1985 Lafite, 1983, 1989 and 1990 Margaux, and 1982 Cheval Blanc and 1970 and 1990 Latour, as well as the other ringer, 1985 Sassacaia. Most of these wines that the Sterling put in the shade have occasionally or frequently earned 100 point Parker scores.
#442
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Congratulations on what seem to have been some great buys.... but Im sorry, I dont understand the comparison. You appear to be telling the story of a wine that at inception was underpriced for the value it offered... so your analogy with the Catena would be...? I guess Im missing something here...
I also bought lots of 1989 and 1990 Classified Growth Bordeaux about 18 years ago, for ~$30-35 USD per bottle. Nowadays, they cost at least 10 times as much - I still have many that I bought for $30-35, but I don't personally feel that they are worth anything near the current prices, in terms of the enjoyment they give me, and I would not buy them at their current prices. But Supply/Demand implies that many other folks WILL buy them at those prices.
One thing that I did NOT mention, and probably should have, is that there is an erroneous Robert Parker writeup out there on the 1978 Sterling Reserve - it seems that he mistakenly believed that Ric Forman had already left Sterling at the time the 1978 Sterling was vinified, and Parker basically trashed everything Sterling had made during the few years post-Forman. But in actual fact, the 1978 Sterling was the last wine Forman made at Sterling, and it is, in fact, a fantastic wine - but it is also a fantastic wine WITHOUT a good Parker score, and a Parker writeup that suggests it might be crap (without his actually having ever tasted it). As such, it remains a screaming bargain at Auctions, despite being a genuinely spectacular wine - because it went under the radar of Robert Parker. If Parker had actually tasted any of the great bottles I have had of this wine, it would cost FAR more than it does.
Last edited by DJGMaster1; Aug 24, 2012 at 2:08 pm
#443
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Argentina is making more good Pinot these days... here is a good everyday Pinot Noir made by one of the Catena Siblings...
Padrillos Pinot Noir, Mendoza
Padrillos Pinot Noir, Mendoza
#444
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#445
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They are all over the place, depending on producer and Terroir. The Mendoza Pinots are mostly power-based, mostly non-Pinot like for my taste, there are some very good ones but you have to search.
Patagonia has probably the best Pinot in the country, but the good stuff is expensive... its made by an Italian Noble Family that has interests in various wine operations. The top stuff is single vineyard, with very very small production and a price to match.
Patagonia has probably the best Pinot in the country, but the good stuff is expensive... its made by an Italian Noble Family that has interests in various wine operations. The top stuff is single vineyard, with very very small production and a price to match.
#446




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Me Too
Forgive me for going off-topic, but this is kind of like the first bottle I ever tasted of Sterling 1978 Reserve Cabernet, which was mis-marked at the same $8.99 as their regular release Cabernet in a Liquor Barn. I might never have tried the Sterling '78 reserve for $30 circa 1982 when it was released, but once I did for $9, it became the benchmark by which I have judged every great Cabernet-based wine I have had since. And I subsequently bought cases of it in both 750s, Magnums, and a Jeroboam of the stuff in auctions (still at ridiculous prices, but closer the the proper price at it's release than that $9 mismark). I still have 1 Magnum and the Jeroboam left. I polished off the last 750 about a year ago, and it was fading, but still great. About 15 years ago, I threw a magnum of it into a large tasting of 1st growth Bordeaux from 1970-1990 as a ringer, and it was by acclamation, the best wine in the tasting.
On that occasion, it cleaned the clocks of 1982 and 1986 Mouton, 1982 and 1985 Lafite, 1983, 1989 and 1990 Margaux, and 1982 Cheval Blanc and 1970 and 1990 Latour, as well as the other ringer, 1985 Sassacaia. Most of these wines that the Sterling put in the shade have occasionally or frequently earned 100 point Parker scores.
On that occasion, it cleaned the clocks of 1982 and 1986 Mouton, 1982 and 1985 Lafite, 1983, 1989 and 1990 Margaux, and 1982 Cheval Blanc and 1970 and 1990 Latour, as well as the other ringer, 1985 Sassacaia. Most of these wines that the Sterling put in the shade have occasionally or frequently earned 100 point Parker scores.

My Liquor Barn episode was a Stags Leap Cask 23 showing up as a bottle of ESB Red Hook for $1.25...

Fun with UPC labels...
...as for clock cleaning those French gems, my recollection and feeble attempts at time displaced comparisons place the the '82 and '86 Moutons as equal yet different. However, I concur with your assessment of the Lafite and Margaux vs. Sterling (for those specific years). The others I've not tried (or don't recall).
Cheers,
-Cyborg
#447
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Similar thing happened to me at a Safeway in Los Gatos, CA. Sterling Reserve Cab 1978 rung up as a bottle deposit - a few cents... 
My Liquor Barn episode was a Stags Leap Cask 23 showing up as a bottle of ESB Red Hook for $1.25...
Fun with UPC labels...
...as for clock cleaning those French gems, my recollection and feeble attempts at time displaced comparisons place the the '82 and '86 Moutons as equal yet different. However, I concur with your assessment of the Lafite and Margaux vs. Sterling (for those specific years). The others I've not tried (or don't recall).
Cheers,
-Cyborg

My Liquor Barn episode was a Stags Leap Cask 23 showing up as a bottle of ESB Red Hook for $1.25...

Fun with UPC labels...
...as for clock cleaning those French gems, my recollection and feeble attempts at time displaced comparisons place the the '82 and '86 Moutons as equal yet different. However, I concur with your assessment of the Lafite and Margaux vs. Sterling (for those specific years). The others I've not tried (or don't recall).
Cheers,
-Cyborg
#448
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While this label is not exactly new to the market... its become my favorite Malbec Syrah blend from Mendoza. F. Flichman Expresiones Malbec Syrah Reserva... ^
After ignoring Flichman as a producer for years, they recently caught my attention with their Cult Parcela 26 Malbec. The new ownership has brought in new talent to the winemaking team and its showing.... the Expresiones is a great wine and offers very good value for money.
After ignoring Flichman as a producer for years, they recently caught my attention with their Cult Parcela 26 Malbec. The new ownership has brought in new talent to the winemaking team and its showing.... the Expresiones is a great wine and offers very good value for money.
#450
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