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Old Mar 22, 2017, 8:58 pm
  #631  
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Well, obviously, you CAN rent a car and drive down to the Uco Valley, but if you're going to be responsible (and you should be), it will somewhat limit your enjoyment. You're going to have to watch what you drink -- and the multi-course wine meal at La Azul will require great vigilance. Lunch wlll certainly be a better experience if you don't have to drive.

That said, personally, if the choice was between paying $200 for a driver, renting a car, or just eating elsewhere, I'd choose one of the last 2 options. I just don't think the lunch is "worth" $300, when there are obviously other options. And I loved the lunch.

I personally paid about $90 for a car, and I did the drive while passing through the Uco on my way elsewhere (to the San Rafael area, which I'm not 100% sure I'd recommend to most wine-oriented visitors). Cars are also oddly expensive in Argentina. It's a problem for a cost-effective visit (high private transport costs), and I don't really have a solution.
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Old Mar 23, 2017, 5:51 pm
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Originally Posted by iahphx
Well, obviously, you CAN rent a car and drive down to the Uco Valley, but if you're going to be responsible (and you should be), it will somewhat limit your enjoyment. You're going to have to watch what you drink -- and the multi-course wine meal at La Azul will require great vigilance. Lunch wlll certainly be a better experience if you don't have to drive.

That said, personally, if the choice was between paying $200 for a driver, renting a car, or just eating elsewhere, I'd choose one of the last 2 options. I just don't think the lunch is "worth" $300, when there are obviously other options. And I loved the lunch.

I personally paid about $90 for a car, and I did the drive while passing through the Uco on my way elsewhere (to the San Rafael area, which I'm not 100% sure I'd recommend to most wine-oriented visitors). Cars are also oddly expensive in Argentina. It's a problem for a cost-effective visit (high private transport costs), and I don't really have a solution.
Makes sense. I didn't think transport would be so insane to get around, but I'll email the hotel i'm staying at to get some prices.
Maybe sign up for uber as well to have another option...
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Old Mar 23, 2017, 7:52 pm
  #633  
 
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MDZ grount

Originally Posted by Gaucho100K
OK Folks.... in the spirit of the sister thread that started a couple of years ago on Buenos Aires, Ive decided to open one about Mendoza, mother region of all wines from Argentina. (please note, Argentina makes wine in several other regions outside Mendoza, alas, it remains the most important one).

Please feel free to post away with your questions right here, I will do my best to share what information I have and my experiences.

For proper disclosure, while I have no affiliation with all the places I will discuss here that offer different kinds of services in Mendoza, I am a member of the wine trade in Buenos Aires and am therefore a frequent patron of most of the places I comment on.

With regards from Buenos Aires,
Alejandro (Gaucho100K)

Last edited by danola; Mar 23, 2017 at 7:53 pm Reason: Hit wrong key
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Old Mar 23, 2017, 9:39 pm
  #634  
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Originally Posted by iceblueshoes
Makes sense. I didn't think transport would be so insane to get around, but I'll email the hotel i'm staying at to get some prices.
Maybe sign up for uber as well to have another option...
Don't forget that for many places (if not most), you need a reservation, and for some places, the best drivers with connections will make sure you get where you really want to go. $200 for a full day trip (which includes nearly an hour each way from Mendoza City to/from the wine regions) is not a whole lot more than a $90 car + a tank of gas. The cheapest gas (in Buenos Aires) was running about US$1.15/liter this week. And don't forget your $200 includes 3 or 4 other stops. (Winery fees were pretty nominal.)

I've done it both ways - a hotel-arranged driver for a hastily arranged trip, and the "best driver in town." They are both quite memorable for 2 different reasons.
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Old Mar 23, 2017, 10:05 pm
  #635  
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Originally Posted by Eastbay1K
Don't forget that for many places (if not most), you need a reservation, and for some places, the best drivers with connections will make sure you get where you really want to go. $200 for a full day trip (which includes nearly an hour each way from Mendoza City to/from the wine regions) is not a whole lot more than a $90 car + a tank of gas. The cheapest gas (in Buenos Aires) was running about US$1.15/liter this week. And don't forget your $200 includes 3 or 4 other stops. (Winery fees were pretty nominal.)

I've done it both ways - a hotel-arranged driver for a hastily arranged trip, and the "best driver in town." They are both quite memorable for 2 different reasons.
Very true that an Uco trip involves planning. You generally do need reservations for most, by not all, of the Uco wineries. I combined my lunch with a visit to a couple other wineries and a drive between the Andes and the San Rafael area. If you have less time, you might indeed prefer to pay for the driver and save yourself some significant hassle. I will say that if you can remain sober and know how to use google maps on your smartphone, driving is pretty darn easy and enjoyable.

This, of course, is somewhat of "the problem" with Argentina right now. The hassle vs. what you get for your money. I'm not entirely sure Uco is worth a $200 driver, or a $100 car rental. I guess it depends on your interest in wine, and the size of your wallet. It's why if somebody asked me "what's the best wine region in the world to visit right now?" I'd tell them Stellenbosch in South Africa and not Mendoza. But not everyone can travel everywhere. And I like both, but I think Stellenbosch offers significantly more value right now.
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Old Mar 25, 2017, 7:24 pm
  #636  
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Excellent detailed comparison, Eastbay1K !!! ^ ^ ^

Gas in Mendoza is more expensive than in EZE, so that's another thing to consider... but your below analysis is excellent and I think sums things up in a nutshell.

Originally Posted by Eastbay1K
Don't forget that for many places (if not most), you need a reservation, and for some places, the best drivers with connections will make sure you get where you really want to go. $200 for a full day trip (which includes nearly an hour each way from Mendoza City to/from the wine regions) is not a whole lot more than a $90 car + a tank of gas. The cheapest gas (in Buenos Aires) was running about US$1.15/liter this week. And don't forget your $200 includes 3 or 4 other stops. (Winery fees were pretty nominal.)

I've done it both ways - a hotel-arranged driver for a hastily arranged trip, and the "best driver in town." They are both quite memorable for 2 different reasons.
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Old Mar 25, 2017, 7:26 pm
  #637  
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Originally Posted by iahphx
This, of course, is somewhat of "the problem" with Argentina right now. The hassle vs. what you get for your money. I'm not entirely sure Uco is worth a $200 driver, or a $100 car rental. I guess it depends on your interest in wine, and the size of your wallet. It's why if somebody asked me "what's the best wine region in the world to visit right now?" I'd tell them Stellenbosch in South Africa and not Mendoza. But not everyone can travel everywhere. And I like both, but I think Stellenbosch offers significantly more value right now.
Stellenbosch is an amazing area which Ive very much enjoyed, and yes, rental cars are less expensive in South Africa than in Argentina. But the cost of food is a tie, and perhaps also for normal lodging... if you go high-end in Stellenbosch it will be more than you pay in Mendoza.

How about comparing prices in Mendoza to Wine Country in California... or Tuscany, or Bordeaux.... or McLaren Vale in Australia....?
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Old Mar 25, 2017, 7:37 pm
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Originally Posted by Gaucho100K
Stellenbosch is an amazing area which Ive very much enjoyed, and yes, rental cars are less expensive in South Africa than in Argentina. But the cost of food is a tie, and perhaps also for normal lodging... if you go high-end in Stellenbosch it will be more than you pay in Mendoza.

How about comparing prices in Mendoza to Wine Country in California... or Tuscany, or Bordeaux.... or McLaren Vale in Australia....?
Well for me personally, California is much cheaper. But I've mastered talking my way into free tastings, and I'm driving my own car. I doubt that my tasting expenses for any wine region in California come near $100 per day (excluding bottles that I buy on the trip) not counting lodging.
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Old Mar 25, 2017, 9:05 pm
  #639  
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Originally Posted by Gaucho100K
Stellenbosch is an amazing area which Ive very much enjoyed, and yes, rental cars are less expensive in South Africa than in Argentina. But the cost of food is a tie, and perhaps also for normal lodging... if you go high-end in Stellenbosch it will be more than you pay in Mendoza.

How about comparing prices in Mendoza to Wine Country in California... or Tuscany, or Bordeaux.... or McLaren Vale in Australia....?
Yup, there are a lot of expensive wine regions. The most expensive to me was the Willamette Valley in Oregon, where they seem to intentionally price their pinot noir tasting at stratospheric levels in increase the snob appeal.

Food and lodging in Stellenbosch now is approximately half that of Mendoza, though (maybe 60%, depending on your tastes).
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Old Mar 27, 2017, 8:44 pm
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Question

Originally Posted by Eastbay1K
Don't forget that for many places (if not most), you need a reservation, and for some places, the best drivers with connections will make sure you get where you really want to go. $200 for a full day trip (which includes nearly an hour each way from Mendoza City to/from the wine regions) is not a whole lot more than a $90 car + a tank of gas. The cheapest gas (in Buenos Aires) was running about US$1.15/liter this week. And don't forget your $200 includes 3 or 4 other stops. (Winery fees were pretty nominal.)

I've done it both ways - a hotel-arranged driver for a hastily arranged trip, and the "best driver in town." They are both quite memorable for 2 different reasons.
While I get what you're saying, the exchange rate is destroying me. Yes it's my fault only. No one else's.
I'd be content just doing the 4-5 tastings and 1 maybe 2 tours tops. I just find it silly to spend what a tour in Burgundy would cost, plus while this will help me on my wine exam, South America is almost an afterthought. It's a minor component, but still an area I need to know about, but not what I'd concentrating on (I'm looking at you Italy...)
But no, I wasn't expecting $60 for a day, but also not $200+ USD

Anyways, as an aside, has anyone heard of or done a trip w/ Bus Vitivinicola?
http://www.busvitivinicola.com/
Leaning towards the Sunday tour to Valle de Uco, but haven't decided on Saturday yet.
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Old Mar 28, 2017, 6:16 am
  #641  
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Originally Posted by iceblueshoes
Anyways, as an aside, has anyone heard of or done a trip w/ Bus Vitivinicola?
http://www.busvitivinicola.com/
Leaning towards the Sunday tour to Valle de Uco, but haven't decided on Saturday yet.
Interesting (and surprising) that there's an organized vineyard bus tour. Doesn't sound exactly my speed but, given the otherwise considerable expense of visiting the vineyards, it might be worth looking into.
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Old Mar 28, 2017, 10:15 am
  #642  
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Originally Posted by iceblueshoes
plus while this will help me on my wine exam, South America is almost an afterthought. It's a minor component, but still an area I need to know about, but not what I'd concentrating on (I'm looking at you Italy...)
Just an observation, but as a general rule, I would find it hard to be in any wine related business (other than perhaps a very French or very Italian restaurant) without having some serious familiarity with South American wines if I hoped to offer my clientele stuff at the leading edge of the value curve. I think that, as a general rule, the QPR for Argentine and Chilean wine is at the forefront of the industry right now (some stuff from Spain, Portugal, and Washington State is comparable perhaps) but certainly, the more established places like France, Italy, and California are not providing the value that these newer wine regions are.

To be fair, France, Italy and California still have some unique offerings at the very highest end of the quality scale (alas also at the highest prices), but I would daresay that for price ranges that most people want to spend on a bottle - and across a broad range of wine varieties and styles, for all but the most special occasions, it's hard to beat what's coming out of Argentina and Chile right now on any consistent basis - so someone who wishes to be in the industry with any broad-based expertise providing the best value, really needs to be up on the wines of South America.

I'd go so far as to suggest that for anything under $30-40 US a bottle retail (or perhaps double that price on a restaurant wine list), I could find a better wine from South America than from anywhere else (except maybe Spain or Portugal).

Last edited by DeweyCheathem; Mar 28, 2017 at 10:22 am
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Old Mar 28, 2017, 11:22 am
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Originally Posted by DeweyCheathem
Just an observation, but as a general rule, I would find it hard to be in any wine related business (other than perhaps a very French or very Italian restaurant) without having some serious familiarity with South American wines if I hoped to offer my clientele stuff at the leading edge of the value curve. I think that, as a general rule, the QPR for Argentine and Chilean wine is at the forefront of the industry right now (some stuff from Spain, Portugal, and Washington State is comparable perhaps) but certainly, the more established places like France, Italy, and California are not providing the value that these newer wine regions are.

To be fair, France, Italy and California still have some unique offerings at the very highest end of the quality scale (alas also at the highest prices), but I would daresay that for price ranges that most people want to spend on a bottle - and across a broad range of wine varieties and styles, for all but the most special occasions, it's hard to beat what's coming out of Argentina and Chile right now on any consistent basis - so someone who wishes to be in the industry with any broad-based expertise providing the best value, really needs to be up on the wines of South America.

I'd go so far as to suggest that for anything under $30-40 US a bottle retail (or perhaps double that price on a restaurant wine list), I could find a better wine from South America than from anywhere else (except maybe Spain or Portugal).
while I do agree with you, I'm speaking about the exam only (CMS) and not in an actual resto environment. Absolutely your $$$ will get you further in South America than say in Burgundy. However the exam isn't evenly weighted like that.

Having said that, I'm definitely looking forward to this trip, but since it's not really all that testable, I'm not looking to break the bank.
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Old Apr 5, 2017, 6:33 am
  #644  
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I agree 100%. Sadly, 90% of the best wines from Argentina (cannot speak for Chile) that are above "entry level" never make it out of the Country, so it must also be said that most US based wine aficionados make the honest mistake of thinking that Argentina only supplies basic every-day drinking wines.

Im just ending a US road-show visiting clients & conducting tastings. For this trip, I have concentrated most of my time in California (of all places).

It has been very interesting to see the reactions from experienced wine aficionados on what sort of quality you get from Argentina in the range of $40 to $100 per bottle. Wines not from Mendoza are basically unknown... and most things outside of Malbec and the odd Bordeaux Style Blend are real eye openers. Ive had great success selling Pinot Noir, Sparkling Wines and even 100% Cabernet Sauvignon to people that never heard of these options made in Argentina.

For the high-end and trophy wine collector, the prices of the Cult Argentine Wines seemed like a true bargain when compared to their California and Old World Counterparts.

Originally Posted by DeweyCheathem
Just an observation, but as a general rule, I would find it hard to be in any wine related business (other than perhaps a very French or very Italian restaurant) without having some serious familiarity with South American wines if I hoped to offer my clientele stuff at the leading edge of the value curve. I think that, as a general rule, the QPR for Argentine and Chilean wine is at the forefront of the industry right now (some stuff from Spain, Portugal, and Washington State is comparable perhaps) but certainly, the more established places like France, Italy, and California are not providing the value that these newer wine regions are.

To be fair, France, Italy and California still have some unique offerings at the very highest end of the quality scale (alas also at the highest prices), but I would daresay that for price ranges that most people want to spend on a bottle - and across a broad range of wine varieties and styles, for all but the most special occasions, it's hard to beat what's coming out of Argentina and Chile right now on any consistent basis - so someone who wishes to be in the industry with any broad-based expertise providing the best value, really needs to be up on the wines of South America.

I'd go so far as to suggest that for anything under $30-40 US a bottle retail (or perhaps double that price on a restaurant wine list), I could find a better wine from South America than from anywhere else (except maybe Spain or Portugal).
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Old Apr 13, 2017, 9:04 am
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According to this article, wine sales in the Argentina Domestic Market is off..

Indudablemente, el consumo de vino no está pasando sus mejores épocas. De hecho, los números difundidos por el Instituto Nacional de Vitivinicultura -INV- lo ponen de manifiesto.
Es que las ventas de vino en el mercado interno registraron una fuerte caída durante los primeros dos meses del año. En referencia al fraccionado, la comercialización cayó 13,4%.

Así las cosas, es que uno de los canales que más sufre esta baja es el supermercado. Es que es justamente allí donde se centra el gran porcentaje de ventas de las bodegas.

Según CCR, la comercialización de vinos finos en supermercados registró una caída del 17% y todas las categorías sufrieron durante los primeros dos meses del año.

De este modo, a diferencia del año pasado, la baja se acentuó ya que, si se toma en consideración el año cerrado 2016 versus 2015, la caída había sido del 4% y algunas categorías de vino habían subsistido y hasta mostrado números en verde.

Sin embargo, la realidad de este rubro no ha sido muy distinta al resto de los productos. Según datos de esta consultora la venta en supermercados -canasta con 144 artículos de diversas categorías de consumo masivo- cayó en enero-febrero de 2017 contra igual período 2016, 6,5% en volumen, lo que indica que el vino tuvo una peor performance.

Según explicó Daniel Rodríguez Cetrán, de CCR, lo que pasó con la categoría vino no está muy alejado a la baja generalizada que responde particularmente a la caída del poder adquisitivo del consumidor y que podría continuar por lo menos hasta mediados de año, "que esperamos que el consumo repunte, luego del cierre de las paritarias de todos los gremios y una recomposición del salario".

Cómo se comportaron los segmentos

En el total de las ventas de vinos en supermercados, híper y discounts, la caída fue generalizada en todos los segmentos de precios.

Aquellos vinos finos que se ubican en el segmento "bajo" con precio promedio de $ 47,90, tuvieron una retracción del 16%; en el segmento "medio bajo", con un valor de $ 55,85 la baja fue del 18%; en el "medio" ($ 74,19) sus ventas cayeron 30%, mientras que el "medio alto" -$ 92,94- cayó 6%; el "alto", con un valor promedio de $ 112,14 el litro, también registró una merma del 11% en sus ventas.

Todos estos segmentos concentran el 87% de las ventas de vinos en supermercado, mientras que el resto de las categorías, el 12% restante que toma a aquellos productos de gama más alta, que va de los 171 pesos el litro a 490 el litro, también cayeron, y ninguno se salvó. Lo mismo sucedió con frizantes, que también se desenvolvieron con una baja del 32%.

Una baja esperada

Para los empresarios del sector, la baja en el consumo interno, y precisamente en supermercados, es una situación sumamente esperada, reacción lógica de los consumidores ante un contexto económico bastante desalentador.

Alberto Arizu (h), director Comercial de la bodega Leoncio Arizu, comentó que el establecimiento tiene una política en todos estos años de estar fuera de las promociones de precio que fueron un driver muy importante de la categoría.

Por lo tanto las ventas, si bien fueron estables, siempre estuvieron en niveles bajos por estar fuera de estas promociones. De todas maneras "en este primer trimestre el movimiento ha sido más bajo aún que el primer trimestre del año anterior".

En línea, Ana Amitrano, gerente comercial de Familia Zuccardi, mencionó que el año pasado el argentino se encontró con una inflación muy alta, con aumentos de precios en todos los segmentos de consumo, y con su salario deteriorándose mes a mes.

"Todo este cóctel de eventos desembocaron en que hoy el consumidor haya regulado sus compras, sobre todo en aquellos productos que no son de primera necesidad", precisó.

El año pasado, según contó la empresaria de Familia Zuccardi, las ventas en el mercado interno se habían mantenido o, mejor dicho, la caída no había sido tan pronunciada como lo es hoy a fuerza de descuentos y promociones sumamente agresivas. Sin embargo, este año no está siendo el camino, por lo que notamos una retracción mayor.

Es que Amitrano señaló que hoy observan un cambio en el comportamiento tanto del consumidor como la forma de afrontar los descuentos por parte de las cadenas de los supermercados.

En este marco, es que explicó Amitrano que se han dejado de ofrecer promociones 2x1 a 4x2 y se abandonó también el descuento masivo por rubro.

"Hoy el consumidor quiere saber cuál es el precio real de los productos, y no quiere que lo obliguen a llevar tanta cantidad de productos para adquirir la rebaja. Por eso, es que hoy las cadenas basan sus estrategias en ofrecer descuentos en ciertos productos y las rebajas van por ítem y no por categoría completa. Es así que podemos encontrar algunas marcas en promo y otras no", precisó.

Al tiempo que indicó que lógicamente tampoco era sostenible en el tiempo continuar "con estas promociones tan agresivas. Las bajas ventas e incrementos de costos no dejaban seguir absorbiendo ese esquema", sostuvo la gerente de Familia Zuccardi.

Por ello, y ante una comercialización que está siendo complicada, es que Amitrano indicó que en el caso particular de este establecimiento, este año focalizarán la estrategia en el marketing y comunicación en el punto de venta. Por lo tanto, este año no basaremos la política en el precio, el cual no es sostenible en el tiempo.

Emiliano Toroski, responsable del área de bebidas del supermercado Átomo y a cargo de las ventas de vinos de Bodega Los Toneles, mencionó que tanto la cadena mendocina así como el establecimiento siguen apostando a las ofertas y promociones agresivas para mantener la categoría de todos los productos, y en especial del vino que tuvo, según indicó, un 2016 muy complicado y que se repitió en los primeros meses del año.

Asimismo, detalló que en todas las categorías las que más están sufriendo la caída de las ventas son los blancos y los vinos entre los $ 80 y $ 100.

"Hay una brecha muy importante entre los tintos y los blancos. Los primeros, tienen una retracción pero no es tan fuerte como los segundos", precisó Toroski. Añadió de hecho, que así como la categoría media es la que más cae, los vinos de baja gama responden de otro modo y, de hecho, en algunas líneas sube.

En este marco, contó que por ejemplo Los Toneles vende una damajuana de 4 litros a 132 pesos, y la misma ha experimentado un incremento en las ventas, lo mismo pasa -aunque en menor medida- con el tetra.

Fuente:Laura Saieg - [email protected] para Diario Los Andes - http://www.losandes.com.ar/article/l...-profundizando
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