Pup

That would mean that if a person signed up for the program and transferred in points before traveling on Amtrak. they would instantly lose those points. Since there would be no travel in the previous three years, poof, points gone.

Maybe nobody does that without having the credit card, so it's moot, but if it's truly programed to work that way and anyone does transfer in a bunch of points to a brand new account, what a surprise welcome that would be!

It's counter-intuitive to the way you'd expect it to work, with the expiration clock starting to tick when the points are added, not before.

nerd

I'm pretty sure Amtrak doesn't start looking at your trailing 3-year travel history until you've been in the program for 3 years.

lo2e

I think you misunderstood or perhaps you're joking (sorry, I can't tell which)... if the very first points in your AGR account are transferred in from another program or earned through their shopping portal, I believe you have three years from that point to travel on Amtrak before they expire. If your first AGR points are earned through travel on Amtrak, you have three years from that date to travel again before they expire.

You're saying the expiration clock SHOULD start before points are earned or transferred? Or am I totally misunderstanding this last sentence?

Pup

I'm saying that most people probably think the clock should, or would, start whenever points first arrive. That seems to be what caught casinoguy by surprise, when his point expired only five months after he transferred them in, rather than three years later.

Is there a specific exception for new members to the program? When I joined, I had the AGR card, so have no idea.

Okay, let's say that there is an exception for new members. Somebody could still get a nasty surprise. Let's say that somebody used to have an active AGR account, then stopped riding the train for three years, then decided to start using the account again by transferring in points, rather than buying a ticket. With no AGR card, they would lose their points instantly. Wouldn't they?

Casinoguy lost his in five months, apparently because it had been two years and seven months since he rode the train, at the time he transferred the points in. What if it had been two years and 11 months? Gone in a month. Two years and 364 days? Gone in a day. Three years? Gone instantly.

lo2e

Ah, now I understand. I guess there are three examples here:

1) If I'm a brand new member of AGR, I think it's reasonable to assume that once I enroll in the program (which I believe you have to in order to transfer points in from another program), I have to travel within the first three years of enrollment in order to keep any of my points.

2) If I'm a "seasoned" member that hasn't traveled in 2+ years for example, hopefully I've remembered that AGR points expire after 3 years, so I need to either a) quickly use any points I currently have or get transfered in, or b) let what's in my account expire and sign up for a new account before doing a transfer or other points-earning move.

3) If it's been 3+ years, my membership has been pretty much canceled anyway, so I would need to re-enroll for a new membership and any transferred points would be subject to the 3-years-from-enrollment rule as mentioned in #1 above.

will5404

I've got 5000 points about to expire. I am planning Amtrak travel, but not before October. Would it work to cash my points in for a coach award (or some other type I won't use), travel on Amtrak to reset the clock than refund the ticket? I could cash in the points for gift cards or some shorter coach journeys I'll need, but I really want to save them for another sleeper trip so would much prefer not to lose them.

nerd

I can't see any reason why that would not work. I'm surprised that no one's ever mentioned that work-around before.

FlyingBoat

I have never purchased a travel ticket, but I have points I have transferred into the program. According to CSR, since I haven't purchased a ticket, the points expire 3 years from when I started the account, not 3 years from when I transferred the points.

I was hoping they would stick to their T&C. "Amtrak Guest Rewards points expire 3 years after your last Amtrak travel purchase."

When is 3 years after never? Wouldn't the last purchase be the initial one, which is sometime in the future? According to the T&C, I could make a purchase 5 years from now and then I would have 3 years from that point. I guess the other interpretation is they would expire immediately since the last purchase doesn't exist!

Anyway, I will just need to make sure I get the credit card before they expire by next April. I may try another small transfer to see if it extends the date in anyway. (5 Bestbuy reward points for 2 Amtrak points.)

RogerD408

Interesting corner case... Given they want to start a counter, I can understand using the date the account was opened and then reset with each travel event. Unfortunately AGR does not use "any activity" like some programs do, so even just buying a ticket (cash or points) does not reset the clock, nor does depositing/burning points. You have to actually get on a train and have your ticket lifted by a conductor.

beltway

And to be clear, it has to be a paid ticket, not a reward using points.

RoboTraveler

If you are near an Amtrak line and where there is a short distance between two stations, have you thought about taking a quick trip to restet the clock for $20 or so?

I don't know how many points you have at risk, but it might be worth your while.

nerd

That's from an FAQ. The full T&C's are pretty straightforward:

"Points earned under the Program will not expire as long as the Program continues and the Member travels on Amtrak using their Membership Number within a 36-month period... If no paid Amtrak travel is recorded or reported within 36 months, your points will expire."

FlyingBoat

Thanks, that is clear. Also, yes I could take a small trip. I had transferred a bunch of points into Wife's and my separate Amtrak accounts a couple of years ago and we took a great reward trip at tremendous value. Wife didn't like it, though. She couldn't sleep on the hard beds and therefore does not want to travel on Amtrak again.

So we have 30K in one account and 20K in another. I will possibly just end up trading them to someone or cashing them out for GC. Though I am holding out that she may at least want to do the Denver to Sac trip one time.

Brendan

FlyingBoat, U can transfer AGR to several airlines FF miles on points.com, but U will lose about half the value. 30K AGR will get 16,173 USAir miles OR 16,575 Aeroplan (incl. 30% "bonus" during June.)

MrHalliday

Clearly the rules say it has to be a paid trip.
The above strategy would be an easy extend,
but I don't think anyone has reported it works.