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Introducing the next stop for Amtrak Guest Rewards

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Old Aug 31, 2015, 6:08 am
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Last edit by: beltway
Changes to Amtrak Guest Rewards in 2016

Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.

Table of Contents
Earning Status
As in the past, members earn Tier Qualifying Points (TQP) for paid travel at the rate of 2 TQP per dollar. With the 2016 changes, however, AGR has eliminated
  • the 100 TQP minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer TQP), and
  • the Acela "select city pairs" TQP minimums for Business class (formerly 500 TQP) and First class (formerly 750 TQP); see post #83
In addition, AGR now provides new class-of-service TQP bonuses: 25% for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. (As noted below, passengers will also earn redeemable AGR points in the same amount.)

The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same:
  • Select - 5,000 TQP
  • Select Plus - 10,000 TQP
  • Select Executive - 20,000 TQP
Benefits for each status level, including the Tier Bonus on cash fares (see below), remain the same.
Earning AGR Points Redeemable for Travel
Members continue to earn redeemable AGR points for paid travel (except as discussed below in this section) at the rate of 2 points per dollar, plus a new 25% point bonus for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. Sleeper-car tickets do not earn a bonus.

With the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates
  • the 100 point minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer points), and
  • the Acela "select city pairs" minimums for Business class (previously 500 points) and First class (previously 750 points)
In addition to base points, members with status continue to earn Tier Bonus redeemable AGR points (i.e., not TQP) at the same level as in 2015:
  • Select - 25%
  • Select Plus - 50%
  • Select Executive - 100%
As was the case before, members do not earn points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redeeming for Travel
For 2016, redemption rules have changed drastically. AGR has discontinued its fixed-point awards and zone system, transitioning instead to a revenue-based system. Under the new program, the points required for an award ticket--including multi-ride tickets and monthly passes--are, with some exceptions noted below, proportional to the cash price of the ticket.

In general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
  • Minimum award pricing: Regardless of the cash fare, a non-Acela award ticket costs a minimum of 800 AGR points. As a result, using AGR points for such tickets with a cash price under $24 (e.g., LNC-PHL or BWI-WAS) results in lower yields.

    Acela award tickets cost a minimum of 4,000 points. Using AGR points for Acela tickets costing less than $103 results in lower yields.

  • No redemption for Saver awards: Per AGR's FT representative, members cannot redeem points for tickets at the least-expensive Saver rate. For instance, even if a $52 Saver WAS-NYP cash fare is available, points can be used only to purchase tickets at the equivalent of an $86 Value fare or higher (resulting in a yield of 1.75 cents/point at best).

  • Peak travel dates/times: As discussed below under "Blackout Dates," Amtrak has quietly introduced a "peak travel" penalty in which certain high-demand itineraries (not published in advance) will cost 50% or even 100% more points than would normally correspond to the available cash fare.

  • Most discount fares inapplicable: Under the 2016 program, AGR points are redeemable for tickets based only on the Adult or Child price, and not at the equivalent of Senior, AAA, or other discounted fares. (See post #83.)

  • As was the case before, members may not redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Note: Reward tickets booked before 1/24/16 are subject to the new redemption policy if modified or canceled on or after that date.

Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.

Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.

Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.

Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.

Blackout dates eliminated: On the plus side, AGR will eliminate award redemption blackout dates and Acela time-of-day restrictions. When the 2016 changes were announced, AGR claimed that blackout dates were being eliminated. As of January 24, 2016, the AGR website still makes that claim. Unfortunately, it is a lie.

On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
you may find limited availability on peak travel dates or times and it is possible that not every seat will be available for redemption. When redeeming points for trips during peak travel dates and times, some itineraries may be available only to our Select Plus and Select Executive members.
Amtrak quietly added similar language to the website in early February 2016. The website also indicates that the point costs for "peak travel" dates and times may be increased in addition to any increase resulting resulting from a higher cash fare. To date, additional points costs of 50% and 100% have been observed on certain itineraries.

Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.

Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.

No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)

For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
CAUTION: The new policy is worded to imply that reservation "modification" and "cancellation" are treated differently. A "modification" ostensibly triggers a penalty only of "any fare difference returned to member," implying that changing to a more expensive fare should involve no penalty and changing to a less expensive fare should be subject to a penalty only on the refunded points difference.

Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
For complete details on the 2016 change rules, including the special rules for multi-ride tickets and monthly passes, see the AGR website.

Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
Points Expiration
AGR altered its expiration policy, which previously required paid travel once every 36 months. Effective August 27, 2015, any points-earning or redemption activity will reset the 36-month clock. Effective April 2019, points expire after 24 months of inactivity.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015.
Post-Rollout Issues/Unknowns
  • Class-of-service bonuses have been posting initially as non-TQPs, although subsequent data points suggest there is currently a delay of ~12 days in proper crediting.
  • Agents have claimed that any change incurs the 10/20% penalty (up to and including asking for a changed room assignment) on the full value of the ticket, rather than just anything involving a reduction in price being penalized 10/20% on the changed portion

It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
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Introducing the next stop for Amtrak Guest Rewards

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Old Sep 7, 2015, 8:40 pm
  #196  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
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Originally Posted by AGR Insider
I noticed a typo error in my August 28th post in this thread. It pertains to the first bullet about our new class of service earning bonus (Business and First class). It will be tier qualifying. It was always the intent to make this tier qualifying as it is replacing the current Select City Pair structure on Acela, which today is all tier qualifying. I went back to the post and removed the word "not" in that bullet, because it was not correct. Our Web page currently does not state whether or not the class of service earn bonus is tier qualifying, but we will make this clarifying update on the page later this week.

Anthony
Thank you, thank you!

Now, BWI-PVD F riders are all pumped up!!
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Old Sep 7, 2015, 8:57 pm
  #197  
 
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Thumbs down

Originally Posted by beltway
As long as we're wishing for ponies, I'd like to urge AGR to rethink their announced policy of excluding Saver fares from awards redemption. It's illogical, not to mention petty.
Removing sleeper fares from bonus point earnings IMHO makes no sense whatsoever either. If any, these should be 100% bonus.
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Old Sep 7, 2015, 9:20 pm
  #198  
 
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Originally Posted by AGR Insider
I noticed a typo error in my August 28th post in this thread. It pertains to the first bullet about our new class of service earning bonus (Business and First class). It will be tier qualifying. It was always the intent to make this tier qualifying as it is replacing the current Select City Pair structure on Acela, which today is all tier qualifying. I went back to the post and removed the word "not" in that bullet, because it was not correct. Our Web page currently does not state whether or not the class of service earn bonus is tier qualifying, but we will make this clarifying update on the page later this week.

Anthony
This is a welcome development (since were it NOT tier qualifying, there was going to be a substantial hit to a lot of Acela riders' TQP earnings).

One question that I do not think has been asked: I think we've all assumed that this applies to purchased classes of service (e.g. if we pay for coach and upgrade to BC the tier earning boost doesn't apply). Is this correct?

In connection with that, what will be the earning status of part-paid part-reward reservations?
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Old Sep 7, 2015, 9:40 pm
  #199  
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Originally Posted by neutralist
Removing sleeper fares from bonus point earnings
Sleeping car travel today earns two points per dollar spent and in the new program it will also earn two points per dollar. No removal of bonus earnings for sleeping car travel will be taking place as in fact no bonus is currently awarded.

Anthony
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Old Sep 8, 2015, 12:41 am
  #200  
 
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I think at some point the new AGR will be refined. Whether it's allowing redemptions to be made on any valid fare (Saver, senior, AAA, or Student Advantage), offering bonuses to sleeper customers, redemption "sales" during slower parts of the year or slower routes, AGR has a lot of flexibility. Ultimately changing to the new revenue based redemption was necessary but as ridership and loyalty drops they have a way to make changes in a sustainable fashion.
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Old Sep 8, 2015, 9:12 am
  #201  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Originally Posted by AGR Insider
I noticed a typo error in my August 28th post in this thread. It pertains to the first bullet about our new class of service earning bonus (Business and First class). It will be tier qualifying. It was always the intent to make this tier qualifying as it is replacing the current Select City Pair structure on Acela, which today is all tier qualifying. I went back to the post and removed the word "not" in that bullet, because it was not correct. Our Web page currently does not state whether or not the class of service earn bonus is tier qualifying, but we will make this clarifying update on the page later this week.

Anthony
Yeah, this is great news for those of us who purchase F Acela tickets between NYP and WAS!

Last edited by physioprof; Sep 8, 2015 at 9:20 am
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Old Sep 8, 2015, 10:46 am
  #202  
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What's the rationale for expecting Amtrak to offer bonus points for sleeper travel?

Are these routes or modes of travel where Amtrak faces particular competition?
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Old Sep 8, 2015, 1:08 pm
  #203  
 
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Originally Posted by beltway
Anthony, the website says "Not all fares will qualify for point earning and redeeming." You've already stated that points will not be redeemable for fares at the Saver level, but I don't recall seeing further details on which fares won't earn points. Can you please elaborate (or point me to the discussion I may have overlooked)?
I may well have missed it, but did we ever get clarification on whether Saver cash fares (or even AAA fares) are eligible to earn under the new system.

Originally Posted by AGR Insider
Sleeping car travel today earns two points per dollar spent and in the new program it will also earn two points per dollar. No removal of bonus earnings for sleeping car travel will be taking place as in fact no bonus is currently awarded.

Anthony
Not to put words in his mouth, but I think neutralist's statement would be better modified as follows to be clear:

"Excluding sleeper fares from bonus point earnings IMHO makes no sense whatsoever either."

I think the rationale for the above and similar sentiment (if I understand them correctly), is that under the new scheme, Business and First classes (premium classes) earn bonuses. Yet, the "longhaul" train premium class (Sleeper) does not earn any bonus.
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Old Sep 8, 2015, 2:42 pm
  #204  
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Originally Posted by 84fiero
I may well have missed it, but did we ever get clarification on whether Saver cash fares (or even AAA fares) are eligible to earn under the new system.

Yes, they will continue to earn points.

Anthony
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Old Sep 8, 2015, 2:47 pm
  #205  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Originally Posted by AGR Insider
Yes, they will continue to earn points.
Thanks, Anthony. Can you tell us which fares will not earn points?
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Old Sep 8, 2015, 5:32 pm
  #206  
 
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Originally Posted by AGR Insider
Yes, they will continue to earn points.

Anthony
Great, thanks for the response!
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Old Sep 8, 2015, 8:50 pm
  #207  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1
Open Tickets before and after the end of the year

Something I don't think I've seen mentioned.
If I make a reservation for a cross-country roomette this Fall for travel next calendar year (July 2016) the rules seem simple. But if I do not know which of several people I will take with me what happens?

In prior years I was able to get an open ticket after the initial reservation and associate that ticket with my reservation at no additional cost (old rules.) Can I make a reservation now for me and a companion and not incur a penalty (or worse, have to cancel and make new reservation under new rules) when I identify the individual? If I wait until after the new year to identify my travelling companion what happens?
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 12:34 pm
  #208  
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Originally Posted by nerd
What's the rationale for expecting Amtrak to offer bonus points for sleeper travel?

Are these routes or modes of travel where Amtrak faces particular competition?
No, but they're expensive and you're buying what's equivalent to a First Class fare. Some airlines give bonuses for F purchases.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 1:22 pm
  #209  
 
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@nerd/CMK10:
There's also the fact that Acela First is getting a 50% bonus and Acela/non-Acela Business is getting a 25% bonus, and at least one train presently has BC and Sleepers.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 2:00 pm
  #210  
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Originally Posted by CMK10
No, but they're expensive and you're buying what's equivalent to a First Class fare. Some airlines give bonuses for F purchases.
Right. Another way to look at it is an incentive to upfare to a higher class of service, because those higher classes of service are (generally) more profitable for the carrier. The hard costs of providing the extra space and service are often not as high as the premium being charged, so the margin is greater.

I once flew Emirates F. My Emirates F suite was probably as large as six regular coach seats. Emirates is selling Y seats on DFW-DXB for $1,200. F seats are being sold for $23,300. If EK were just looking to recoup the cost of those six Y seats, they'd sell the F seat for $7,200, but they are selling it for over three times that cost. Sure, the Dom served by Emirates is a nice (and spendy) Champagne, and I know some FTers who have probably consumed the equivalent of a whole bottle by themselves in the dozen or so hours of that flight, but that plus the full meal services and other beverages plus extra flight attendants wouldn't total more than a fifth of the cost of one economy seat. They charge three times more than the equivalent number of coach seats that the F suite replaces because they can--because the people flying up there can afford it and are willing to pay for the improved experience.

To help incentivize that purchase and reward those customers for their increased profitability, they toss a few extra bonus miles out. (This is also why airlines give mileage bonuses on higher fare classes--someone paying full Y for a coach seat is much more profitable than someone paying a deep-discount fare. The airlines want to incentivize people to purchase higher, more flexible fare classes, and they do that in many ways, including by increasing the bonus miles offered on them.)

Amtrak is doing the same on Acela. They charge a premium for the F seats. The premium they charge is greater than the actual cost of removing some Y seats and tossing a meal and a beverage at the passenger and hiring an extra attendant. People buying up those extra F seats represents extra profit for Amtrak, so they help incentivize those purchases by giving extra points--points that amount, at most, to a few dollars' worth of value.

So why are sleepers any different? Last I heard, sleeping cars actually covered their above-the-rail costs better than coach cars. Amtrak makes more of a profit--or at least takes less of a loss--on sleepers than it does on coach cars. So it's in Amtrak's interest to incentivize people to upfare to a sleeper. If they can do that by tossing a dozen bucks' worth of points on the typical grand-plus sleeper fare out at passengers, why shouldn't they? It really has nothing to do with airline competition and more with incentivizing desirable behavior, and in that sense, it's somewhat baffling that the new program doesn't do that.

Last edited by jackal; Sep 9, 2015 at 4:51 pm
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