Aug 31, 2015, 6:08 am
Last edit by: beltway
Changes to Amtrak Guest Rewards in 2016
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
AGR altered its expiration policy, which previously required paid travel once every 36 months. Effective August 27, 2015, any points-earning or redemption activity will reset the 36-month clock. Effective April 2019, points expire after 24 months of inactivity.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015. Post-Rollout Issues/Unknowns
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
As in the past, members earn Tier Qualifying Points (TQP) for paid travel at the rate of 2 TQP per dollar. With the 2016 changes, however, AGR has eliminated In addition, AGR now provides new class-of-service TQP bonuses: 25% for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. (As noted below, passengers will also earn redeemable AGR points in the same amount.)
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same: Benefits for each status level, including the Tier Bonus on cash fares (see below), remain the same.
Earning AGR Points Redeemable for Travel- the 100 TQP minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer TQP), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" TQP minimums for Business class (formerly 500 TQP) and First class (formerly 750 TQP); see post #83
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same:
- Select - 5,000 TQP
- Select Plus - 10,000 TQP
- Select Executive - 20,000 TQP
Members continue to earn redeemable AGR points for paid travel (except as discussed below in this section) at the rate of 2 points per dollar, plus a new 25% point bonus for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. Sleeper-car tickets do not earn a bonus.
With the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates In addition to base points, members with status continue to earn Tier Bonus redeemable AGR points (i.e., not TQP) at the same level as in 2015: As was the case before, members do not earn points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redeeming for TravelWith the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates
- the 100 point minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer points), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" minimums for Business class (previously 500 points) and First class (previously 750 points)
- Select - 25%
- Select Plus - 50%
- Select Executive - 100%
For 2016, redemption rules have changed drastically. AGR has discontinued its fixed-point awards and zone system, transitioning instead to a revenue-based system. Under the new program, the points required for an award ticket--including multi-ride tickets and monthly passes--are, with some exceptions noted below, proportional to the cash price of the ticket.
In general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
Note: Reward tickets booked before 1/24/16 are subject to the new redemption policy if modified or canceled on or after that date.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dateseliminated: On the plus side, AGR will eliminate award redemption blackout dates and Acela time-of-day restrictions. When the 2016 changes were announced, AGR claimed that blackout dates were being eliminated. As of January 24, 2016, the AGR website still makes that claim. Unfortunately, it is a lie.
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
Amtrak quietly added similar language to the website in early February 2016. The website also indicates that the point costs for "peak travel" dates and times may be increased in addition to any increase resulting resulting from a higher cash fare. To date, additional points costs of 50% and 100% have been observed on certain itineraries.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
Points ExpirationIn general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
- Minimum award pricing: Regardless of the cash fare, a non-Acela award ticket costs a minimum of 800 AGR points. As a result, using AGR points for such tickets with a cash price under $24 (e.g., LNC-PHL or BWI-WAS) results in lower yields.
Acela award tickets cost a minimum of 4,000 points. Using AGR points for Acela tickets costing less than $103 results in lower yields.
- No redemption for Saver awards: Per AGR's FT representative, members cannot redeem points for tickets at the least-expensive Saver rate. For instance, even if a $52 Saver WAS-NYP cash fare is available, points can be used only to purchase tickets at the equivalent of an $86 Value fare or higher (resulting in a yield of 1.75 cents/point at best).
- Peak travel dates/times: As discussed below under "Blackout Dates," Amtrak has quietly introduced a "peak travel" penalty in which certain high-demand itineraries (not published in advance) will cost 50% or even 100% more points than would normally correspond to the available cash fare.
- Most discount fares inapplicable: Under the 2016 program, AGR points are redeemable for tickets based only on the Adult or Child price, and not at the equivalent of Senior, AAA, or other discounted fares. (See post #83.)
- As was the case before, members may not redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dates
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
you may find limited availability on peak travel dates or times and it is possible that not every seat will be available for redemption. When redeeming points for trips during peak travel dates and times, some itineraries may be available only to our Select Plus and Select Executive members.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
CAUTION: The new policy is worded to imply that reservation "modification" and "cancellation" are treated differently. A "modification" ostensibly triggers a penalty only of "any fare difference returned to member," implying that changing to a more expensive fare should involve no penalty and changing to a less expensive fare should be subject to a penalty only on the refunded points difference.
Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
For complete details on the 2016 change rules, including the special rules for multi-ride tickets and monthly passes, see the AGR website.Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015.
- Class-of-service bonuses have been posting initially as non-TQPs, although subsequent data points suggest there is currently a delay of ~12 days in proper crediting.
- Agents have claimed that any change incurs the 10/20% penalty (up to and including asking for a changed room assignment) on the full value of the ticket, rather than just anything involving a reduction in price being penalized 10/20% on the changed portion
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Introducing the next stop for Amtrak Guest Rewards
Sep 15, 2015, 12:49 pm
#241
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Programs: Marriott lifetime Titanium, Delta Platinum
Posts: 5,470
Sep 15, 2015, 1:11 pm
#242
Join Date: Aug 2009
Programs: AGR Select+, Hilton Gold, Luv SWA, wish their points wud transfer to Amtrak.....
Posts: 89
On the same token, why are saver fares and "everyday" discounts (NARP, AAA, Student Advantage, Veteran Advantage, and senior citizen fares) not eligible for use on a redemption award? I can understand it may not be practical to include the smaller promotions (such as some of the special fares to certain events in California, the Train Days promo, etc.) but if I can pull it up in a normal Amtrak.com search from the homepage/when going through the purchasing process, why can't they be used for AGR redemptions?
Sep 15, 2015, 1:12 pm
#243
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
$1400 would equal 48,300 points. Take the dollar price and multiply by 34.5 for the required point price for a non-Acela redemption.
Sep 15, 2015, 1:24 pm
#244
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 311
And I say that with total appreciation for Anthony sharing info here.
Sep 15, 2015, 5:14 pm
#245
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
I'm more interested in the second question. But I can't believe any representative of the company other than an official PR person would give a rationale for any decision that company made. And if they did, it would be vague and bland and answer nothing. Because really, the answer is, "it was a financial decision," and no one is going to say that directly.
And I say that with total appreciation for Anthony sharing info here.
And I say that with total appreciation for Anthony sharing info here.
Sep 15, 2015, 8:46 pm
#247
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,868
If you are flexible with your dates and routes, I happened to see some rates as low as $1064, which works out to only 36,708 points.
Sep 16, 2015, 8:09 am
#248
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: Far too many
Posts: 315
One AGR member who is not upset by these changes
1. Redemptions:
When my SO & I started out traveling on Amtrak with AGRs, I was very taken by the "high value" sleeper redemption possibilities the zone scheme made possible. However, these very long journeys proved tiresome, especially given the frequent long delays and the monotonous menu.
So, we have gravitated to 10-36 hour (scheduled) journeys. Since we are located along the Coast Starlight route, and at the terminus of the Zephyr, this has allowed very beautiful trips to places that we actually want to go, in a relaxed and restorative manner. When we want to travel further, we break the trip into segments and spend time at an exploring (and stretching out) at an intermediate stop.
Experimenting with the calculator, it appears that we will now be spending modestly fewer AGRs for some of our most favorite trips, about the same for others, and considerably more for the longest trips.
One significant pricing change is that the new scheme prices in the extra charge for additional pax in sleepers, as with paid fares. The result is to make solo sleeper travel more affordable in points.
Another is that we can now shop for particularly well-priced itineraries rather than being limited to the current single price per zone no matter what the dates or connections.
Of course this cuts both ways, as the costliest itineraries will now cost more points, whereas currently we can travel on any dates for the same points price, as long as there is availability.
The end of award blackout periods is very welcome. In the past, we have had to limit travel to the few available dates during vacation times. I am looking forward to being able to decide exactly which days to board the train during these times.
2. Supply side:
Previously, almost 100% of my amtrak points originated as Chase UR transfers. This may or may not continue under the new regime. However other BoA co-branded cards have been obtainable time and time again. We now have two different cards to sign up for. I am cautiously optimistic that BoA signup bonuses will become the new normal as a source of AGRs, leaving the URs free for other redemptions.
3. Hotel xfrs: The Choice 1:3 xfr option continues in altered form. I am looking forward to learning from the experts here about how this will work out.
When my SO & I started out traveling on Amtrak with AGRs, I was very taken by the "high value" sleeper redemption possibilities the zone scheme made possible. However, these very long journeys proved tiresome, especially given the frequent long delays and the monotonous menu.
So, we have gravitated to 10-36 hour (scheduled) journeys. Since we are located along the Coast Starlight route, and at the terminus of the Zephyr, this has allowed very beautiful trips to places that we actually want to go, in a relaxed and restorative manner. When we want to travel further, we break the trip into segments and spend time at an exploring (and stretching out) at an intermediate stop.
Experimenting with the calculator, it appears that we will now be spending modestly fewer AGRs for some of our most favorite trips, about the same for others, and considerably more for the longest trips.
One significant pricing change is that the new scheme prices in the extra charge for additional pax in sleepers, as with paid fares. The result is to make solo sleeper travel more affordable in points.
Another is that we can now shop for particularly well-priced itineraries rather than being limited to the current single price per zone no matter what the dates or connections.
Of course this cuts both ways, as the costliest itineraries will now cost more points, whereas currently we can travel on any dates for the same points price, as long as there is availability.
The end of award blackout periods is very welcome. In the past, we have had to limit travel to the few available dates during vacation times. I am looking forward to being able to decide exactly which days to board the train during these times.
2. Supply side:
Previously, almost 100% of my amtrak points originated as Chase UR transfers. This may or may not continue under the new regime. However other BoA co-branded cards have been obtainable time and time again. We now have two different cards to sign up for. I am cautiously optimistic that BoA signup bonuses will become the new normal as a source of AGRs, leaving the URs free for other redemptions.
3. Hotel xfrs: The Choice 1:3 xfr option continues in altered form. I am looking forward to learning from the experts here about how this will work out.
Last edited by travel light; Sep 27, 2015 at 8:21 am Reason: Additional data
Sep 25, 2015, 10:30 am
#249
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 543
From the AGR website...
"Q: What fares do not qualify for point earning and redeeming?
A: As is the case today, members may not earn or redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services. Additionally, discounted Amtrak fares (including Saver Fares, AAA discount, Senior Fares etc.) will not be redeemable."
So -- it looks like saver fare pricing won't be available using points. To me, that makes the program waaaay less valuable the 2.9 cents per point equivalent that's been talked about. I only buy saver fares, booking far in advance. Won't be able to get anywhere near fair conversion using points. Ugh.
"Q: What fares do not qualify for point earning and redeeming?
A: As is the case today, members may not earn or redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services. Additionally, discounted Amtrak fares (including Saver Fares, AAA discount, Senior Fares etc.) will not be redeemable."
So -- it looks like saver fare pricing won't be available using points. To me, that makes the program waaaay less valuable the 2.9 cents per point equivalent that's been talked about. I only buy saver fares, booking far in advance. Won't be able to get anywhere near fair conversion using points. Ugh.
Sep 25, 2015, 10:53 am
#250
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
From the AGR website...
"Q: What fares do not qualify for point earning and redeeming?
A: As is the case today, members may not earn or redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services. Additionally, discounted Amtrak fares (including Saver Fares, AAA discount, Senior Fares etc.) will not be redeemable."
"Q: What fares do not qualify for point earning and redeeming?
A: As is the case today, members may not earn or redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services. Additionally, discounted Amtrak fares (including Saver Fares, AAA discount, Senior Fares etc.) will not be redeemable."
So -- it looks like saver fare pricing won't be available using points. To me, that makes the program waaaay less valuable the 2.9 cents per point equivalent that's been talked about. I only buy saver fares, booking far in advance. Won't be able to get anywhere near fair conversion using points. Ugh.
Sep 25, 2015, 11:00 am
#251
Company Representative - Amtrak
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (Select Executive)
Posts: 528
Saver fares aren't refundable, and many customers choose to select higher fares on paid tickets to gain more flexibility. It is not apples to apples to the redemption rate for this reason, as redemption travel will have more flexible terms than saver tickets. Simply saying that the value of an AGR point is less for departures where saver fares are available doesn't take into account this flexibility contrast.
Anthony
Anthony
Sep 25, 2015, 11:27 am
#252
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
Saver fares aren't refundable, and many customers choose to select higher fares on paid tickets to gain more flexibility. It is not apples to apples to the redemption rate for this reason, as redemption travel will have more flexible terms than saver tickets. Simply saying that the value of an AGR point is less for departures where saver fares are available doesn't take into account this flexibility contrast.
Anthony
Anthony
Likely the only customers who would view a reward cancelation as preferable would perhaps be those who don't plan to travel on Amtrak before the voucher expires.
Last edited by 84fiero; Sep 25, 2015 at 11:36 am
Sep 25, 2015, 12:48 pm
#253
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 543
Saver fares aren't refundable, and many customers choose to select higher fares on paid tickets to gain more flexibility. It is not apples to apples to the redemption rate for this reason, as redemption travel will have more flexible terms than saver tickets. Simply saying that the value of an AGR point is less for departures where saver fares are available doesn't take into account this flexibility contrast.
Anthony
Anthony
I hadn't focused on the "flexibility contrast" point that you make. I do see how that's an issue. Wouldn't a more favorable way of solving that be to just make the point refundability tied to the type of fare being redeemed? So, you can use more points if you want to preserve full flexibility, or you can use the fewer number of points that would correspond to the saver fare if you're willing to give up flexibility in exchange for a lower fare. The point of the new system is to turn points into a fixed cash equivalent and remove the distortion that the old system created, and permitting saver fare redemption with normal saver fare restrictions would accomplish that.
(I know it's not your decision, but to the extent you do anything with suggestions, there it is.)
Thanks again for the response.
Sep 29, 2015, 7:14 am
#254
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: BOS
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (Select Executive)
Posts: 5
5% Credit Card Rebate
Hi All,
I'm a regular NEC rider holding the old and new AGR cards but I've never fully understood the rebate. I couldn't use points to buy my monthly passes in the past so I think that is why it has never come up. Can someone explain how it works/plays out? I feel like it may be applicable now that I can use points to buy monthly passes.
Thanks for any information.
Eric
I'm a regular NEC rider holding the old and new AGR cards but I've never fully understood the rebate. I couldn't use points to buy my monthly passes in the past so I think that is why it has never come up. Can someone explain how it works/plays out? I feel like it may be applicable now that I can use points to buy monthly passes.
Thanks for any information.
Eric
Sep 29, 2015, 7:48 am
#255
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SW Michigan, ex SF Bay Area
Posts: 831
I have often redeemed points for a 2-zone roomette, at a cost of 20,000 points. When the booking is made, 20,000 points are deducted from my AGR account. Immediately following that transaction, 1,000 points are credited to my AGR account--a 5% rebate.
The net result is that if you have the AGR credit card, point redemptions for Amtrak travel cost 5% less; but because it's in the form of a rebate, you must have the full amount of points in your account before you can book the redemption travel.