Points Clawed Back - Upgraded for bonus, downgraded in less than 12 months.
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium, UA Silver, Hertz 5*
Posts: 913
Points Clawed Back - Upgraded for bonus, downgraded in less than 12 months.
Last year I took a targeted upgrade from Everyday to EveryDay Preferred and paid the prorated annual fee, met the spend requirements and received my bonus points. Last month I was charged the annual fee and since I was never hitting the 30 transactions needed to get the 50% bonus points, I decided to downgrade back to the Everyday card where it's easier to hit the 20 transactions per month and receive the 20% bonus.
Today I received an email saying they have adjusted my account because of the downgrade and sure enough I saw that the bonus points had been pulled out. I wish I had known that even downgrades would trigger a clawback. Any suggestions on how to proceed? Should I just chalk this up to experience and move on?
FWIW, this is now my only Amex card. I had a Gold card which I cancelled last year after I got charged the $250 annual fee and almost always was losing out on the limited restaurant credit.
Today I received an email saying they have adjusted my account because of the downgrade and sure enough I saw that the bonus points had been pulled out. I wish I had known that even downgrades would trigger a clawback. Any suggestions on how to proceed? Should I just chalk this up to experience and move on?
FWIW, this is now my only Amex card. I had a Gold card which I cancelled last year after I got charged the $250 annual fee and almost always was losing out on the limited restaurant credit.
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: IAH
Programs: DL DM, Hyatt Ist-iest, Stariott Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 12,792
... paid the prorated annual fee, met the spend requirements and received my bonus points. Last month I was charged the annual fee ... Today I received an email saying they have adjusted my account because of the downgrade and sure enough I saw that the bonus points had been pulled out. I wish I had known that even downgrades would trigger a clawback. Any suggestions on how to proceed? Should I just chalk this up to experience and move on?
#3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,194
Yeah, as KK stated, if you didn't keep the card for a year you have little recourse.
AMEX is very clear about closing cards within a year. And that year begins when you decided to accept a bonus to upgrade to another card.
Sorry.
AMEX is very clear about closing cards within a year. And that year begins when you decided to accept a bonus to upgrade to another card.
Sorry.
Last edited by Diplomatico; Mar 24, 2021 at 8:24 pm
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium, UA Silver, Hertz 5*
Posts: 913
Oh well! I guess Amex made a half year's annual fee off me for once
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium, UA Silver, Hertz 5*
Posts: 913
For the record, I didn't close the card, simply downgraded it to what I had before.
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: IAH
Programs: DL DM, Hyatt Ist-iest, Stariott Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 12,792
I have a ED to EDP upgrade offer in my email right now, and this is a quote direct from the T&Cs in the email: "...if you cancel or downgrade your account within 12 months after acquiring it; or if you cancel or return purchases you made to meet the Threshold Amount), we may not credit Membership Rewards® points to, we may freeze Membership Rewards® points credited to, or we may take away Membership Rewards® points from your account."
Unfortunate to learn a lesson the hard way...
#7
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA; Philadelphia, PA
Programs: OZ Diamond
Posts: 6,139
Right - but downgrading and cancelling have the same negative impact in the eyes of Amex if they gave you some incentive, like an upgrade or retention bonus.
I have a ED to EDP upgrade offer in my email right now, and this is a quote direct from the T&Cs in the email: "...if you cancel or downgrade your account within 12 months after acquiring it; or if you cancel or return purchases you made to meet the Threshold Amount), we may not credit Membership Rewards® points to, we may freeze Membership Rewards® points credited to, or we may take away Membership Rewards® points from your account."
Unfortunate to learn a lesson the hard way...
I have a ED to EDP upgrade offer in my email right now, and this is a quote direct from the T&Cs in the email: "...if you cancel or downgrade your account within 12 months after acquiring it; or if you cancel or return purchases you made to meet the Threshold Amount), we may not credit Membership Rewards® points to, we may freeze Membership Rewards® points credited to, or we may take away Membership Rewards® points from your account."
Unfortunate to learn a lesson the hard way...
LAX
#8
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,958
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium, UA Silver, Hertz 5*
Posts: 913
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Honestly, I now wonder if this has in some way blacklisted me (or at the very least put me on some kind of naughty list) with Amex. If I were you, I'd probably look to keep the card for an additional year and try and get a retention bonus to offset the second year's annual fee. 2 years seems to be the new safe spot now. I upgraded from the ED to the EDP by simply clicking the upgrade offer that showed up under My Offers and didn't bother to read the T&Cs. Lost 25K MR.
Does anyone have any data points on whether future applications for new cards are approved/rejected based on a past clawback of points?
Does anyone have any data points on whether future applications for new cards are approved/rejected based on a past clawback of points?
#10
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA; Philadelphia, PA
Programs: OZ Diamond
Posts: 6,139
LAX
#12
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAS ORD
Programs: AA Pro (mostly B6) OZ♦ (flying BR/UA), BA Silver Hyatt LT, Wynn Black, Cosmo Plat, Mlife Noir
Posts: 5,992
It's actually within 30 days from the closing date of the statement on which the AF posts. I had no clawback from my PRG bonus when I closed it in this manner (immediately following my first renewal AF).
#13
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA; Philadelphia, PA
Programs: OZ Diamond
Posts: 6,139
LAX
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium, UA Silver, Hertz 5*
Posts: 913
Nope! Not a peep. If he had explicitly told me that my points would be debited I would have backed off. My guess is since I was only downgrading and not canceling the card, he didnt need to bother much.
#15
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAS ORD
Programs: AA Pro (mostly B6) OZ♦ (flying BR/UA), BA Silver Hyatt LT, Wynn Black, Cosmo Plat, Mlife Noir
Posts: 5,992
Not that I'm aware of; I even received a targeted offer for the BCP recently that was better than the public offer.