WasKnown

Someone on fatFiRe said their bank also gave them a centurion invite. In the comments of the thread, someone said that a few banks internationally have given Centurion invites. One person said they know someone that had $12M (presumably USD) with HSBC and got a Centurion invite

Also in the comments, the OP said he can get the Centurion for $4K/$8K instead of $5K/$10K…

Thread: https://reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comment...d_for_fatfire/

mia

I think these will be the International Dollar or Euro version, not the USA Centurion. As always, I will be delighted to be wrong.

GrnLantern

Random question: Is the Personal US Cent still a hidden tradeline like it used to be? Or has that changed in recent years?

JustA Millennial

I have the personal US Cent, there is still a hidden version of it. But i was told by my membership manager that i can just ask her if a big purchase will go through, i can also tell her ahead of time that i will be buying something that is out of the ordinary.

stimpy

I don't understand this. A hidden tradeline hides balances, right? But you pay off your Centurion card each month, so what does it matter?

And I've never had to call Amex to have a large purchase approved. And I sometimes make crazy purchases in countries all over the world.

GUWonder

That the account and its balance isn’t reported to credit agencies. It means that the account and balance isn’t as broadly visible for privacy purposes too; but more importantly for some that it’s not as typically factored into total credit availability-related sizing-up by other lenders.

But more generally it’s more of a concern for those who may at times roll or carry a balance and have credit score concerns for whatever reason.

moe8555

After reviewing the sources, you're absolutely right. And the issue with the ICC Centurions offered by private banks is that they aren't considered true "American Express owned/operated" cards with regard to flexibility within the Amex ecosystem (e.g. global transfers). I'll surely never be able to find the source again, but I came across a post on a different site by someone very frustrated with being refused by Amex to participate in the global transfer program (not to U.S. Centurion, which isn't officially possible) because of this. Additionally, the banks can play with the AF as they please and charge more than the AF of a "true" Amex ICC Centurion. You are captive to the bank, and if your relationship with the bank ends, so does your Centurion card.

I don't have any version of the Centurion, but hoping to get my hands on a true ICC Centurion some day...

JustA Millennial

It depends what you consider "large purchase"

SteveT

ICC Cards are considered "American Express owned/operated" but handled by a separate division of Amex, at least the ones issued in the Americas. The difference is that most of the ICC cards are guaranteed by the partner banks, which is why global transfers are not available.

GrnLantern

+1 to what others replied with.

If you pay off your balance at the end of every month, after the statement closes, you'll never have a zero balance in your credit report. For example, if you charge $100k/month, and pay off $100k/month after the statement closes, you'll continue to show that you're carrying a $100k balance. The only way to avoid this is to anticipate and prepay before each statement closes, in time before it closes so that it closes with a zero balance.

A hidden tradeline alleviates this annoyance.

Visconti

Aside from credit score (FICO) volatility, generally it wouldn't matter. However, consider the following scenario. Let's say the aggregate static tradelines I have as reported in the respective CRAs are, say, $500K total; then, I charge a $750K purchase on my Amex. So, what happens if I decided to apply for that Chase card with 100k bonus? Well, when they run my credit, it's going to report a utilization of 150%, which will set off all sorts of red flags. At the very least, I'm not going to get auto approved, and would likely have to follow-up with a phone call explaining why that utilization isn't or shouldn't pose a credit risk.

Neither have I, but suspect that if I were to charge, say, a McLaren F1, they may call and just make sure this is something I really wanna do. LOL

stimpy

I'm not sure. I haven't purchased a car with my Centurion, but I have bought rather expensive items and the person running the charge generally says that we have to wait til Amex calls for approval. Because they always call for approval for large purchases. And then they are shocked that the charge just went through. I expect that Amex has some limit in the system for each of us, but it seems clear that the limit they set for Centurion members is a whole lot higher than it is for Platinum and lesser cards.

And thanks to all who explained the hidden tradeline. I didn't know that balance reporting worked like that. I guess I shouldn't care because it has never been an issue for me. Sometimes timing can be lucky I guess.

Visconti

Once we’re passed this SUB era, I wouldn’t care either. It’s only because we’re in this prolonged phase where credit card bonuses are so abundant that we all feel obliged to take part, if only to keep pace with all the “free” points others are racking up.

There's no reason why you should care, and neither will I, once we're pass this era of rich CC SUBs.

NotSoMuch

Private bank referrals aren't just for ICC cards. I am aware of several PB that will provide both ICC and UK GBP Centurion. I also believe there are equivalent partnerships for centurion for most of Europe. Many banks are part of both ICC and country-specific schemes, which may be why most people opted for the ICC version.

The main advantages of using a bank-referred card are 1) international direct debit (e.g. paying dollars from Switzerland) 2)120-180k sign up bonus occasionally.

However, the significant disadvantage is the underwriting process. Many PBs will block the limit they set for you, and some may even place a charge on the entire account. This takes away one of the few reasons to have a centurion, in my opinion. With a standard cent, one can only spend a relatively modest amount per month regularly but work out protocols for occasional payments in the hundreds of thousands.

There is a process of electing the card to be directly managed by AMEX UK/ICC -- so one may keep the card when they switch banking relationships. However, I have not gone through the process, and I suspect Amex may have additional criteria.

You are not supposed to global transfer ICC cards as one can theoretically keep the same account active regardless of the country of residence. However, Global transfer is not a unified system with strict rules, so I suspect a lot can be done by having Amex reps email their counterpart.

(NB - I have a GBP Centurion, a USD Gold as well as a number of ICC Green cards arranged by different banks. I was offered ICC Centurion referrals but declined them and eventually got a GBP Cent this year. A few family members have had different versions of centurion for years)

WasKnown

Posting findings and also tagging SteveT in response to our PMs:

GS said there are no hard requirements on their end and Amex generally accepts everyone they introduce. However, they were adamant about this only being for the personal centurion card. Can the person that got it please confirm? I don’t think this is something they do very frequently. Seems like there’s no credible path for me here but I asked 2 PMDs at GS to see if they can request invites for themselves or even on my behalf. Not too interested given it’s the personal Cent and not the biz but I would still gladly take it if given the opportunity.

I spoke to 3 people at China Merchant Bank about the Mainland China Centurion card. Most of them had no idea what I was talking about, then they pushed me up until the last person finally understood my broken Chinese. First, he said I could have it. Then he said I must have a shenfenzheng (idk how it’s spelled) number to even be considered. As someone that is not Chinese in any dimension, I tried to submit it for the Chinese national business partner of our WFOE (with her permission). We hold a modest amount of working capital with CMB (两亿人民币左右）. Will update back on this but I’m not familiar with the Chinese Cent at all. I think there is also an ICBC Cent but I won’t do business with them for reasons unrelated to this.