Admiral Ackbar

I got a pretty long survey a few months back asking for what benefits, which combo, etc. They need to add a few things back to this card to make it worthwhile again imo (and I say this as someone that made great use of the various benefits over the past decade or so).

RoutingWonk

I'm really not sure we'll see major improvements in the Canadian Plat. After the SPG card devaluation I went through all of the mid-range and high-end card options I could find to put together a strategy and I didn't find anything that's definitely a better option despite the card not being as good as it used to. I did recently get the HSBC WE MC for the no forex feature with a very reasonable rewards program (they should really advertise transferring points to airlines better).

The 2 features I'd want to see from the Amex Plat is no forex (obviously) and a lower additional user card fee. I've been using the US Amex Plat for Centurion lounge and Priority Pass for years, and I'd really like to move that back to a Canadian card if it were possible to spread the high annual fee out over multiple card users.


Also, FWIW I haven't found HSBC very easy to work with. I'm assuming it's because they're focused on Premier where you have a single point of contact, but there's something to be said for Amex's service culture.

entropy

I think the FX fees on the cdn amex plat are ridiculous for a "premium" card in 2018.

BenSenise

and has anyone here read the fine print regarding purchases in currencies other than CAD or USD? they convert first to USD and then USD to CAD so you're losing out twice. i avoid using the card anywhere other than the US or Canada.

mia

How so? They do not add two foreign transaction fees.

BenSenise

from the Cardmember Agreement under "Charges Made In Foreign Currency" p10.

"If the charges is not in US dollars, the conversion will be made through US dollars, by converting the carge amount into US dollars and then by converting the US dollar amount into Canadian dollars. If the charge is in US dollars, it will be converted directly into Canadian dollars."

I think that people don't understand how conversion works. Banks say "no commission" but that doesn't mean they can use whatever spread they choose.

there is something called the "interbank rate" also known as "spot rate." then, when banks exchange money for you, they put a spread, e.g. the difference between what they buy the currency for and what they sell it for. when you travel and go to an currency exchange business, they'll show that they'll buy your US dollars for CAD 1.28 and they'll sell you USD for 1.32. their spread is four cents.

maybe the place down the street has a three cent spread or if you're changing a large amount at your bank, they'll give you a two cent spread.

what amex has explicitly stated in their agreement is that they'll convert EUR (for example) to USD and then to CAD. it's there in black and white.

i don't know what you mean by "foreign transaction fees" because i don't see any fees on my statements. i just see a foreign currency and a rate, and the amount in CAD.

mia

It's the same as what you call the spread.

American Express Canada tells you that they are adding 2.5%, and they add it only once even though they go through a two-step conversion:

RoutingWonk

I don't think we're there yet in the Canadian market. Certainly the US is but there are what? 4 no F/X fee cards in the Canadian market and 0 for small business cards.

I'm not sure if it's a function of Canadians spending more in foreign currencies than Americans do (think of all the services that charge us in USD) making it more expensive to offer to a Canadian than to an American or something else.

Point is that I don't think it's become table stakes for a premium card in Canada yet.

BenSenise

so does a card with no fx fees give you the spot rate, i.e. no spread? i would be very surprised if it did.

mia, what is the source of this text that states amex charges a 2.5% fee?

crimsona

Fee schedule on application

Foreign Currency Conversion
Charges in a currency other than Canadian dollars will be converted into Canadian dollars on the date we process the charge. If the charge is not in U.S. dollars, it will first be converted to U.S. dollars and then into Canadian dollars. If the charge is in U.S. dollars, it will be converted directly into Canadian dollars. Conversion rates are based on interbank rates selected from customary industry sources on the business day prior to the processing date, increased by a single conversion commission of 2.5% of each charge. Any conversion commission charged on the original charge will not be returned on a refund.

MasterGeek

ffsim

Exactly. The only place the consumer loses out is if Amex uses two uncompetitive exchange rates, thereby doubling the exposure to uncompetitiveness Otherwise, it's just a single commission added to the process as you quoted.

If I'm honest, I'm more bothered by losing out on refunds due to them withholding their commission on refunds. For example, I booked an FHR hotel in Vegas and was charged a deposit. My dates changed, and when I took advantage of a lower rate at a different FHR property, the refund from the first booking ended up costing me ~$30... Obviously, the larger the refund, the steeper the penalty. I'm ok with losing out due to currency fluctuations in the period between purchase and refund, but it's wrong for them to keep a commission if I don't get to keep what I paid for.

Bingo -- there simply isn't enough card competition in Canada to drive the necessity of offering that sort of benefit.

BRAISKI

That's brutal so I'm currently in Germany for sometime, so my expenses would be converted from EUR to USD to CAD! Damn! Not sure if points will still be worth it!

RoutingWonk

The idea is that since you're paying 1 conversion fee the cost of the double conversion should be marginal.

I was looking for the rates but I couldn't find Amex's FX rates published, but I did find an article from greedyrates showing the difference between Visa/MC/Amex rates and it uses EUR->CAD as an example.

Greedyrates Article on CC FX

Vasco

All that means is that giant multinational banks typically transact with each other in USD. That's it. It means that Amex Canada has to pay whichever bank the merchant uses in Germany in USD to settle your purchase. It makes essentially zero difference to the cardholder. And yes, you only get charged the 2.5% forex conversion fee once: at the very end of the process.