AA gave away our seats to standby pax- advice?
Jan 20, 2023, 9:31 pm
#166
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Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 38
I am sorry to repeat myself, but I think this distinction somehow has gotten lost in the other discussion.
As an international passenger, you are required by the CoC to be at the departure gate at T-30. The other passengers who are flying wholly US are not -- they may arrive at T-15. Even though you were flying with these other passengers, your own tickets had this special restriction, which I think may have been noticed by the GAs who used that information to offload you promptly. For all we know you were the only offloaded peeps, probably to empty two first class seats for some people known to the GA or important to AA in some other way. The remaining standbys were filled into empty economy seats immediately afterward, leaving no more seats on the plane. All of these actions could have been done per AA's own rules at T-29, and I think they were done around T-25. I also think the flight started boarding at T-40 and was fully boarded by about T-25. The GAs do see a real-time decreasing list of checked-in pax who haven't boarded and it may have been just the OP's group.
Offloading wholly domestic peeps must wait until T-15 but there is no evidence that happened here. Remember the first class cabin is handled as its own entity with limited supply, but there are normally several blocked yet empty seats in economy to handle small oversales.
The large gaggle of standbys indicates that the GAs had a lot of post-boarding card-printing to do, which they probably foresaw and also led them to board at T-40. But I think that final boarding call that OP heard at T-20 was a huge warning to get in front of the GA immediately. I think it was probably their second, final announcement, the first being at T-25 when they were noted for offboarding. The first announcement means "all remaining peeps nearby board immediately"; the second announcement means "boarding has ended, fare thee well."
In any case, international peeps must present themselves to the gate agent by T-30 which did not happen here.
As an international passenger, you are required by the CoC to be at the departure gate at T-30. The other passengers who are flying wholly US are not -- they may arrive at T-15. Even though you were flying with these other passengers, your own tickets had this special restriction, which I think may have been noticed by the GAs who used that information to offload you promptly. For all we know you were the only offloaded peeps, probably to empty two first class seats for some people known to the GA or important to AA in some other way. The remaining standbys were filled into empty economy seats immediately afterward, leaving no more seats on the plane. All of these actions could have been done per AA's own rules at T-29, and I think they were done around T-25. I also think the flight started boarding at T-40 and was fully boarded by about T-25. The GAs do see a real-time decreasing list of checked-in pax who haven't boarded and it may have been just the OP's group.
Offloading wholly domestic peeps must wait until T-15 but there is no evidence that happened here. Remember the first class cabin is handled as its own entity with limited supply, but there are normally several blocked yet empty seats in economy to handle small oversales.
The large gaggle of standbys indicates that the GAs had a lot of post-boarding card-printing to do, which they probably foresaw and also led them to board at T-40. But I think that final boarding call that OP heard at T-20 was a huge warning to get in front of the GA immediately. I think it was probably their second, final announcement, the first being at T-25 when they were noted for offboarding. The first announcement means "all remaining peeps nearby board immediately"; the second announcement means "boarding has ended, fare thee well."
In any case, international peeps must present themselves to the gate agent by T-30 which did not happen here.
Ive flown hundreds of times from to/from the US from Canada. Mostly direct, but enough connecting flights to be able to comment.
If you check in with a LIVE agent, this is where you do your passport check (on both connecting / direct itineraries).
Sometimes I do not check in with a live agent and proceed straight to the gate, and thats where they make announcements for you to present yourself prior to the flight (in ATL this happened btw). Presenting yourself prior when they call your name is not even mandatory. We were in the lounge and proceeded to our gate from Toronto - Charlotte (and boarded with business clas) on the way down to the US. We did not check in with a live agent and just showed our passports upon boarding.
You are not treated any different from anyone else on your flight because you are connecting to an international flight, regardless if you are a foreigner in the US or anywhere else. Your baggage drop times, check in times are the same for everyone on the flight (in this case from MSY-CLT).
Our boarding pass had the same boarding time as a couple we met on the cruise we had just disembarked that day (we bumped into them after we checked in and again at the gate). That couple was flying MSY- CLT and are American citizens.
I dont mean to be argumentative but this is simply not true.
Jan 20, 2023, 9:55 pm
#167
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Jan 21, 2023, 5:51 am
#168
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So, for the flight mentioned above that is consistently departing at T-11 to T-13, I wonder how many pax are being left behind.
If you get there at 16 minutes till, the GA will already be back there in the process of getting paperwork and closing the door prior to walking back to the gate.
If you get there at 16 minutes till, the GA will already be back there in the process of getting paperwork and closing the door prior to walking back to the gate.
Jan 21, 2023, 11:06 am
#169
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***
(2) International travel
For itineraries that include airports outside of the United States, you must be checked in at your originating airport 60 minutes before scheduled departure time.
Please note the 60 minute check-in time applies at U.S. airports when the itinerary includes any airport outside of the United States.
***
(A) Denied boarding (U.S.A./Canadian flight origin) when there is an oversold AA flight that originates in the U.S.A./Canada, the following provisions apply:
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(d) Exceptions: A passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an oversold flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:
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(vii) The passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 10 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See rule 60 for ADDITIONAL information regarding boarding cut-off times.
***
(2) International travel
For itineraries that include airports outside of the United States, you must be checked in at your originating airport 60 minutes before scheduled departure time.
Please note the 60 minute check-in time applies at U.S. airports when the itinerary includes any airport outside of the United States.
***
(A) Denied boarding (U.S.A./Canadian flight origin) when there is an oversold AA flight that originates in the U.S.A./Canada, the following provisions apply:
---
(d) Exceptions: A passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an oversold flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:
---
(vii) The passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 10 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See rule 60 for ADDITIONAL information regarding boarding cut-off times.
***
Jan 21, 2023, 11:09 am
#170
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Per a previous suggestion, I think the court of public opinion might still be good option for the OP at this point, if they can find the right advocate. It was recently quite effective in another matter involving AA:
You asked in your original post about advice on next steps. Having made several runs at resolving it with AA, it seems like you have two choices at this point, either to let it go, or to try to take it somewhere outside of AA. From the latter perspective, you might consider writing to this New York Times columnist: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/06/t...ed-cruise.html As evidenced by the responses on your thread, I think your story is an interesting one that might appeal to the Times. Good luck!
Jan 21, 2023, 11:26 am
#171
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This is what is stated in the American Airlines Rules, Fares & Charges which are on file with the US DOT:
Jan 21, 2023, 2:12 pm
#172
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 474
Sometimes AA starts boarding early, and quickly. There are occasions that I arrive at the gate at the beginning of scheduled boarding, only to find out that everyone has already boarded. You should not be cutting it too close, especially these days that flights are full.
My general advice to be at the gate is that no later than 5 minutes after scheduled boarding time should be your cut off, but ideally at least 5 minutes before scheduled boarding. (15 minutes before boarding time if you are waiting for upgrades to clear and you are high on the UG list).
My general advice to be at the gate is that no later than 5 minutes after scheduled boarding time should be your cut off, but ideally at least 5 minutes before scheduled boarding. (15 minutes before boarding time if you are waiting for upgrades to clear and you are high on the UG list).
Jan 21, 2023, 2:32 pm
#173
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I show up at my home airport 10-15 minutes before boarding, 3-4 minutes for the TSA, and 3-4 minutes walk to the remote gates, but I like to board first, with the CKs
Last edited by nk15; Jan 21, 2023 at 2:38 pm
Jan 21, 2023, 2:48 pm
#174
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Jan 21, 2023, 3:05 pm
#175
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I would be interested in that but I have stopped checking bags in the last few years, so unless I am traveling with a shoulder bag only I cannot do that. My carry on is a 16 incher but since the stupid airlines made the underseat space lower and unusable in the new aircraft, I cannot fit it there anymore.
Jan 21, 2023, 4:59 pm
#176
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This is what is stated in the American Airlines Rules, Fares & Charges which are on file with the US DOT:
It does not read to me that the boarding time is dependent on what other segments may be in the passengers itinerary (eg, a domestic departure is a domestic departure, for all pax on that flight). Also, its been pointed out that this does specifically contradict the AA CoC.
Jan 21, 2023, 5:06 pm
#177
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OP here
LIVID all over again.
We received 2 of 3 refunds late last week. Called to follow up earlier this week and was told to fill out some refunds/prefunds web form. Received this today, this is a JOKE right??
Called AA spoke to a supervisor, there is not a LIVE human who can explain to me WHY I have an entire ticket in the form of a flight credit?
I did not change my plans AA, YOU changed them for me.
We are going to file a chargeback I guess.
Have complained with DOT.
Filed a claim through AMEX.
Filing a small claims suit is not off the table.
If anyone has any way to escalate things with AA to get RESULTS, pls feel free to PM me.
To be out $5000+ for a flight is unreal.
LIVID all over again.
We received 2 of 3 refunds late last week. Called to follow up earlier this week and was told to fill out some refunds/prefunds web form. Received this today, this is a JOKE right??
Called AA spoke to a supervisor, there is not a LIVE human who can explain to me WHY I have an entire ticket in the form of a flight credit?
I did not change my plans AA, YOU changed them for me.
We are going to file a chargeback I guess.
Have complained with DOT.
Filed a claim through AMEX.
Filing a small claims suit is not off the table.
If anyone has any way to escalate things with AA to get RESULTS, pls feel free to PM me.
To be out $5000+ for a flight is unreal.
re: credit card chargeback - generally a difficult avenue for various reasons. Also many cards require a charge to be disputed within two billing cycles of when it posted. Obviously that makes it difficult for airline tickets, probably intentionally, as the airlines and card issuers are in bed with one another. But IMO if the service wasnt provided it should be eligible, though YMMV. Also, a successful chargeback doesnt necessarily absolve you, the merchant can still come after you (not suggesting AA would, just pointing out it isnt the cure-all).
Jan 21, 2023, 5:15 pm
#178
Join Date: Mar 2010
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This is what is stated in the American Airlines Rules, Fares & Charges which are on file with the US DOT:
Jan 21, 2023, 5:28 pm
#179
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From AA.com:
Conditions of carriage
Updated November 21, 2022
The contract between you, the passenger, and us, American Airlines
At American Airlines, we fly over borders – across the country and the world – to connect people and communities. Providing this service and making the world a smaller, more inclusive place, is a huge part of who we are.Flying with American
All transportation of passengers and bags provided by American Airlines is subject to the terms of these Conditions of Carriage, in addition to any:
- Terms printed on any ticket, ticket jacket or ticket receipt
- Published fare rules; and
- Applicable tariffs filed by American Airlines in accordance with U.S. Department of Transportation regulations.
American Airlines General Rules of the International Tariff Opens a PDF document in a new window
The language about check-in time for flights on itineraries that include airports outside of the United States is vague and subject to interpretation.
Jan 21, 2023, 6:08 pm
#180
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Are we now focusing on:
a) check-in time (which was timestamped at D-58, and accepted by the airline)
b) arrival at gate area (sometime prior to D-25, but no hard evidence seems to exist)
or
c) the time the OP was removed from the flight (the OP doesn't know...AA presumably does)
?
a) check-in time (which was timestamped at D-58, and accepted by the airline)
b) arrival at gate area (sometime prior to D-25, but no hard evidence seems to exist)
or
c) the time the OP was removed from the flight (the OP doesn't know...AA presumably does)
?