Sparty3

Hello!
Long time lurker, first time poster. Frequent flyer (not loyal to a particular airline). I'm now getting the runaround from AA and have been given multiple answers and looking for any advice how to proceed.

MSY-CLT AA2821
CLT-YYZ AA1730
08JAN23
2 adults + 2 year old in business class (booked in mid 2022)

• Checked in online 22 hours prior had electronic boarding passes
• Upon arrival at MSY proceeded to Priority Counter. Short wait, checked in with agent at the airport and checked in 3 bags (as per AA app bags show checked at 10:02am)
• Issued new paper boarding passes for both flights
• Proceeded to the gate where we noticed a lot of crowding. Regardless, we navigated the crowd (with a stroller) to join the priority line up/zones. We were next in line behind a single male passenger when the final boarding call announcement was made (somewhere between 10:35-10:40 CST).
• After a few moments we noticed the male passenger in front of us absorbed in his phone. We asked him why he hadn't boarded and he stated to us that he wasn't in line (my husband claims he mentioned something about standby). So we went around him and handed the gate agent our boarding pass (this was now somewhere between 10:40am and BEFORE 10:45am). We were immediately told the flight was closed and they gave our seats away (simultaneously there was an announcement about standby passengers and a lot of activity at the gate).
• We made it clear to the gate agent we were there, and standing in line and even asked the male passenger who had now moved from the priority line to confirm (which he did). I believe another group of by standards also mentioned this as they were on the other side of the line up and witnessed this.
• For the next 5 minutes we watched them issue new boarding passes for standby passengers (approx 10:52am was the time I witnessed the last standby passenger board).

When asked for explanations why our seats were given away we were given multiple answers... first that they can give our seats away since we were not at the gate when our zone was boarded and pointed to the fact that on our paper boarding pass it says our boarding time was 10:25am. Another agent said that they gave away our seats bc they had no idea if we were at the airport or not (we had checked bags? how could we check bags without being at the airport?). Another agent said they close the gate 20 mins prior (boarding pass says 15 mins). I am no stranger to business class, I've never ever been told I HAD to board with my zone. As I noted above there were a LOT of people crowding in the gate area when we arrived, looking back I realize these must have been standby passengers. Other AA agents on the phone confirmed that several flights from MSY were oversold that weekend.

• We were asked to step aside, we inquired about our bags and were told they were going to Toronto (they went to Charlotte and stayed there for 2 days.. had to go retrieve them from YYZ ourselves).
• A gate agent really tried to find us alternate seats (both home to YYZ and nearby airports like BUF/ROH/DTW, but given the date there was 0 available to get us home to YYZ. There were no confirmed business class seats for nearly 36 hours later, no economy until 28+ hours later. We were told it would be best to stay AT the airport and standby (with a 2 year old this is not realistic) was told to submit a claim to AA for overnight hotels.
• We went back to the departures area and attempted to buy tickets with another carrier (DL, AC, UA ... 0 available same day)
• We had to get home asap so took the shuttle to the car rental area, found a car that was permitted to drive back to Toronto ($700+).
• We decided to start making our way home by car (19 hours) and call AA to see if they can rebook us from another airport along the way (BNA? ATL? MEM?)
• Once on the road called AA and they looked at every airport within a 300 mile radius of MSY (as per their policy) NO availability.
• Found a flight that departed at 22:00 from ATL back to YYZ on DL. AA would not rebook us for both the rule mentioned above.
• AA agent suggested we cancel our flights (full refund) and rebook with an alternate carrier. So we did just that.
• We ran into some bad weather on Sunday while making our way to ATL. Being unfamiliar with the roads and having to make rest stops with our 2 year old we rebooked for ATL-YYZ at 6am on Jan 9 2023. Bought one way economy tickets: $900 / per person!
• Returned the rental to ATL airport and booked a hotel attached to the sky train for $200+.

AA has now responded by refunding our tickets, and says we aren't owed any additional denied boarding compensation. We have decent AMEX insurance with our card for flight delay (IDB is covered).

They sent me this response today
Hello Ms. SPARTY3

Thank you for contacting American Airlines Customer Relations. We appreciate the opportunity to address your claim for compensation based on Canadian Air Passenger Protection Regulations.

We are sorry for the difficulties experienced at the New Orleans airport on January 8, 2023. Ms. SPARTY3, for most itineraries involving international travel, such as flight AA2821 from New Orleans to Charlotte on January 8, 2023, customers must be checked in no later than 45 minutes prior to departure time. In addition, it's a requirement that customers arrive at their gate no less than 30 minutes prior to departure time.

This information can be located in our Conditions of Carriage on our website www.aa.com. Our records confirm the gate arrival requirements were not met, therefore, compensation per this Regulation is not due.

We appreciate your business, Ms. SPARTY3, and hope to have the opportunity to welcome you, HUSBAND, and 2 YEAR OLD on board another American flight.
Sincerely,
JXXXXXXXXXXX

Customer Relations

American Airlines
AA REF XXXXXXXX

Thoughts OR insights (and yes I realize it is their word against mine).
What is the CORRECT info here?
As per AA website, baggage drop closes 45 mins prior (our bags were checked in at 10am). Our boarding passes (I can post a photo, but too new to FT to do it at the moment) say the gate closes 15 mins prior and boarding starts at 10:25am.
Is this strictly a AA rule for business class? We've flown AA earlier in 2022 without issue, I've never been one to rush the gate to board but never make a point of being last either.
I realize it's their word against mine, I regret not recording the interactions with AA at the airport.
I was always under the assumption that if you missed your flight bc it was YOUR fault (arrived late to the airport/gate) you lost your $$ and they would not rebook you (for free) nor refund you.
Do I need to escalate this with DOT or CTA?

***update 20JAN23
I feel like I’m talking to a wall with American Airlines
SO FRUSTRATED
We were promised full refunds on the day this even occurred. We have since received 2 of 3 refunds.
They were processed over the phone with an supervisor during our drive to ATL.

Earlier this week, I called to follow up on the 3rd refund. Told to fill out the pre/refunds web form. This is the response I received:

Reference Ticket # xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thanks for your request. We're sorry your travel plans changed but your trip is non-refundable.

If your ticket was purchased directly with American Airlines, you may check your Flight Credit and book new travel on AA.com.

If you need help with rebooking, please call reservations at 800-433-7300.

If your ticket was booked through a travel agency, please reach out to your agency directly.

When you rebook your trip keep in mind:
• The same passenger must travel on the rebooked ticket.
• Travel must be completed before your ticket expires.
• Other fees may apply.

You may also visit the U.S. Department of Transportation Aviation Consumer Protection for access to additional information about your passenger rights.
Thanks for choosing American Airlines.

Sincerely,

American Airlines Passenger Refunds

Are they for real?????
We did not change our plans!!!!

Finkface

For international flights (this was to YYZ), check in and bag drop cut off is 1 hour.

To check-in and check bags at the airport, you must be there a certain amount of time before scheduled departure:

• Within the U.S. – 45 minutes
• To or from destinations outside the U.S. – 60 minutes

https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...nd-arrival.jsp

USFlyerUS

Good point. Now that I reread it, it's not clear.

The OP said AA1776 on 8 JAN. However, AA1776 on 8 JAN operated PHL-BOS and BOS-PHL, so that can't be the right flight #.

I assume the OP meant AA2821 on 8 JAN, which was scheduled to depart at 11:00 a.m. So, I retract what I said before. Boarding is supposed to end 15 min before departure. If indeed the party got to the gate agent at 10:40 a.m., they should have been able to board. Now it comes down to exactly what time the party actually got to the gate agent handling boarding,

Finkface

See my post above. It sounds like they were not checked in one hour prior.

From the OP:
".....checked in 3 bags (as per AA app bags show checked at 10:02am)".

js1993

No, can't be, or AA wouldn't have accepted their checked bags.

OP clearly stated they checked in online 22 hours before the flight.

AA has a 3-minute grace period built into the systems, so the baggage deadline would have been 10:03 am for an 11:00 am int'l flight.

enviroian

This is why your seats were given away.

I would have never assumed a guy standing in line on his phone was boarding an aircraft and would have notioned/asked "excuse me are you boarding?".

Sparty3

Just to clarify: the 45 min rule applies to us as we were flying US domestic (MSY-CLT Connecting via CLT to YYZ). I messed up the flight number but have since corrected it. Sorry.

We checked in online, but when we went to the counter upon artivsl
arrival at MSY (baggage shows recieved 10:02).

We were given paper boarding passes at the counter. So we were well within the timeframe.

Boarding time on paper passes says 10:25am, also states gate closes 15 mins prior.

Antarius

You were well within check in time. Regardless, if they took your bags, you're good.

The issue is this stupid D0 at all costs mentality that is enforced. So GAs do anything and everything to meet that deadline, collateral damage be damned.

I've had my seat taken away as they claimed I never replied to their PA announcements. They butchered my name so badly, it sounded nothing like anything I would respond to or associate with my name. For you, The GA probably said "this person hasn't boarded and it's group 9, so they must not be here".

The AA CoC states that you must be in the boarding area 30 mins before but boarding closes 15 mins before. This is what AA is claiming - I call BS as there's no written requirement to make yourself known in between those times. You're well within your contractual rights to sit there from T30 to T16 and board.

s0ssos

Obviously you checked in on time. Or AA would not have checked in the bags.
Their customer service are idiots. Just file a complaint with a government agency. Or better yet sue them. A lot of us would support you.

Sparty3

I know, looking back I should have been more vocal. This singular male passenger was an arm length's away from the gate agent. I had no reason to believe he was not in line for zone 1/2
I wish I could post photo (apparently I'm too new to FT) of the gate area as I found some photos online.


I've taken voluntary bumps before and never had an issue.
Is it actually worth going through a government agency (like DOT?) In Canada it does nothing.

js1993

If nothing else, airlines are legally required to respond to DOT complaints, and the people who respond aren't the usual frontline reps, many of whom, these days, are clueless.

If I were you, I'd file a BRIEF complaint here:

https://www.transportation.gov/airco...umer-complaint

"On [date] for flight # ____, I checked in my family online 22 hours before the flight and AA accepted our checked bags at [time]. Our boarding passes said boarding ended at 10:45 am, but when we tried to board at 10:40 am, the gate agent said our seats had been given away. No seats were available on AA or other airlines for several days. As a result, we had to drive __ hours home at a cost of $___, for which AA is refusing reimbursement."

lrdpenn

Good luck - this happens every once in a while and when it does it feels like the entire airline digs their heels in - gate agent, customer service, etc - regardless of what's clearly stated in the policy.
It has happened to me, and it's very frustrating. When I'm cutting it close and see a standby scrum I help myself to scanning my boarding my pass.

dtremit

Unfortunately, "denied boarding" or "involuntary denied boarding" is a much more specific term than it would seem at first glance, and I think it's unlikely that it applies in your situation. IDB by definition requires that you be denied boarding because the plane has more ticketed passengers than available seats. Unless you can prove that the plane went out with every seat full, it would be difficult to make a case for that specific compensation — and the Canadian rules specifically say you have to be at the gate on time for it to apply. Unfortunately the fact that AA gave seats to standby passengers works against you in this claim.

This doesn't mean you can't potentially get some kind of compensation from AA, just that you're unlikely to get that compensation.

I have no idea if the AmEx coverage has the same standard. You may need to get AA to at least admit some kind of fault in order for that coverage to apply.

I would really love to know what "records" AA has to prove you were not in the gate area 30 minutes before departure. AFAICT the only things they would have records of are (a) the time you dropped off your bags, and (b) the time you attempted to board the plane. I would call their bluff on that one. If you can get AA to admit that they screwed up — even if you don't get compensation — that may make your insurance claim much easier.

fastflyer

Why o why did the OP not talk to the gate agent? Other passengers/ gate lice/ people milling about are not agents nor in any way in charge of the flight. ALWAYS talk to the gate agent if there is any reason to think you are going to board after T-30 (like boarding last or after your group has been called). This is an easily avoidable problem. Just let the gate agent know you are there and you need extra time, etc.. They will tell you to board immediately if they want to move the flight closing along. For an 11am domestic flight, boarding begins at 10:20 or 10:25. By 10:30, the gate agent has called all the boarding groups (everyone queues up on the gangway). The agents want to move to the next tasks, clearing standbys and closing the flight door at T-15 or T-10 at the latest.

rjque

Have you ever tried to speak with a gate agent during boarding? It's often not easy, and they often won't even make eye contact and there is often a long line of people trying to deal with seating issues who won't appreciate someone pushing to the front. They are pretty busy during that time and AA doesn't staff them appropriately.

It sounds like the OP has a good claim that AA messed up. Unfortunately, I think the COC limits compensation to a refund, even if AA messed up. I would definitely make a DOT complaint as AA will pay much more attention to it than a regular customer service complaint. DOT complaints are how COC's get modified by regulations like the IDB rules that we all know so well.