AA100k

Amazon gives no warning and makes sure that you don�t get access again at the same URL or home address. And I don�t think they�re worried about losing the business forever of the people involved.

Ivstan14

We should be clear that there are two different reasons for account locking that is currently happening. The minority of people affected are those who did what the OP of this thread were doing, intentionally holding seats with invalid credit cards. The much larger majority are comprised of people who were accruing large sums of AAdvantage miles through credit accounts with Citi -- accounts which were created, and approved, through valid representation of the individuals involved. This was a practice that Citi allowed for many years (and actually still does allow today). It's understandable that we might look down on both groups, but let's be sure we're not lumping blatant fraud together with repetitive usage of an account contract which was accepted by all parties involved.

AA100k

People in my business who travel frequently would love to be stuck at an AA hub flying nonstop all over the country and world.

richarddd

Based on the mailer thread on FT, the current method is to use email offers that are, but their terms, non-transferable. It also appears that many people were getting these email offers by signing up for new AAdvantage accounts under names not their own (or having relatives, pets, etc sign up). Citi would approve the new cards and issue the bonus miles without checking that the name on the email matched the applicant's name. Citi AA cards: TARGETED offers (includes Mailers, eMailers and Matching)

If so, in these cases there is a misrepresentation or T&C violation somewhere in the process and the applicant knew.

Ivstan14

All the mailers did was provide a link and a unique code. When you went to the website and used the code, the applicant was presented with the normal application page and had to fill in all of their personal details. These HAD to be accurate and not a misrepresentation or else the application itself would be fraudulent.

The mailers did state they were not transferable, but their operation indicated otherwise. No one lied about who they were when they applied, and Citi chose to accept their application despite knowing full well how many accounts they possessed. But the question of misrepresentation here is one between the application and Citi, not with AA. The connection between Citi's rules on credit accounts and American Airline miles is a step removed from the discussion over whether Citi should have been approving the accounts. They chose to do so, and they provided the account holder with the miles as a perk for signing up. At no point in the process did any applicant lie to Citi, let alone misrepresent themselves to AA.

The creation of multiple accounts to generate mailers is a separate issue that I could reasonable see AA taking action on, but many of the DPs affected by this week's freeze were not involved in that game.

tjcxx

Not sure whether I should laugh or cry.

Cry because of all this nonsense, when those of us in the world outside the US have no chance of trying on any of these credit card shenanigans. The only credit card bank offering airline-mileage accrual in the UK gave up the business a year or two ago. MBNA just pulled out. I had 3 credit card accounts, earning miles on AA, UA and VS. These cards had no sign up bonuses, no churning possible, and a paltry 0.75 mile per � spend. Then they were all closed, and switched for 3 identical regular credit cards. Now I only get the miles for actual flights, now reduced to the small multiple of EQD. Not to speak of the earlier change, when MM mileage accrual was so cruelly cut. (I'm still sitting at about 1,850,000. At 2,000,000 I can give up worrying).

Laugh because, well, sorry, it is quite funny, all of this thread.

richarddd

How did they get multiple mailers? Are they claiming that they were not aware that the mailers were, by their terms, non-transferable? I realize many say that Citi allowing them to use the codes nullified the non-transferable statement.

BTW, is DP data point?

Ivstan14

The non-transferable statement on the mailers becomes a rather moot point when the institution who created the rule chooses to accept the application of an individual who approached them with entirely accurate information. Unless we're arguing that it should not be Citi's responsibility to know who they should be approving for cards. That sounds like the decay of society to me if we're now arguing that individuals are responsible for making sure they remember what accounts they've opened since Fortune 100 companies can't be expected to manage their own accounts.

It's worth mentioning that there really was never a discussion among the communities about the "non-transferable" language on the mailers. They've existed for nearly a decade and Citi has always been consistent in how they handled the processing. In fact, they still are -- you can go out and apply with an emailer right now and Citi will approve you, regardless of previous applications. AA is doing the dirty work here, Citi does not appear to be involved at this point as they're still happily enabling account sign ups.

DP does = data point, yep.

richarddd

Which brings us back to the question of how people were getting multiple offer codes.

Ivstan14

Citi would send them out every month or two. As long as the person they were addressed to didn't use the code, an unlimited number of people could use the code to sign up. A month or two later, Citi would send out another mailer and the cycle would repeat.

That changed a couple months ago when Citi restricted them to one-use per code. That's when some people started opening multiple accounts in order to keep up their selling pace. I'd argue that's when the fire started getting lit under AA.

catsfroggy1

My point is if you were in a AA hub city its not like you are going to stop flying AA.

george 3

I think AA is very interested in stopping those who are using and abusing the system to the detriment and credibility of its award program, and like most companies, stopping the theft of services.

frequentvactioner

One aspect not mentioned is that many who signed up via mailers never had or saw the language from AA.

On many website there was sharing of the sign up links/codes (credit card forums, travel blogs, reddit, local classified websites, craigslist etc).

They were being given away (some being sold) but would include a link that would go directly to Citi.

I repeat, the AA emailers link went to Citi! It did not load up anything at AA. Parties that received these links loaded up at citi and were told by the people that they received it from that they could change it to their name which the Citi application allowed. There was nothing on that website that indicated that this was a nontransferable application. I know of 60+ y/o mildly computer illiterate individuals who were emailed the app links from nephews and told if they wanted to sign up for another card they could use that link. No language on the landing page from the link that indicated this was a problem.

While some created fake AA accounts to get mailers, not everyone who signed had the email. They were given a link that went to Citi. There was no revealing that this was a nontransferable link or a risk.

The individual near retirement received this link - (can't post it with less than 5 post - but is the direct link to the citi application page that asks for code and last name - with the code and last name to put in with instructions to that these could be used by changing the pre-filled info to their own.

scubadu

I don't think I said anything that would disagree with what you've said; clearly AA is doing just that.

However, I don't agree that by closing this loophole AA is all the sudden going to happily start opening tons of Saver awards, in business class, to Europe in July, for "mom, dad, and the kids" which is what many would be hoping for. That is just flat out naive.

Regards

Antarius

I'm hub "captive" to 2 United hubs. Still refuse to fly them.

So to your point, not only is having a major airline convenient, There are also options if you want out.