AA FA bitten by purported emotional support animal / ESA 22 Jul 2019
Jul 25, 2019, 6:09 am
#31
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As a totally anti union person to my very core, this actually represents a benefit to a rank and file member. Also betting said rank and file member will get no help. But will still be compelled to pay their union dues.
As far as ESA goes, it is easy to spot the shams. But many times the shams are of the ilk that cares only about their "bubble", and if CK, EXP, or full fare F, what GA is going to call them out?
As far as ESA goes, it is easy to spot the shams. But many times the shams are of the ilk that cares only about their "bubble", and if CK, EXP, or full fare F, what GA is going to call them out?
I'd more impressed if the flight attendant union(s) were concerned about passenger safety too. Instead, they're only concerned about untrained and/or fake ESAs after one of their own is injured.
ADDED: We could require those with ESAs to post a huge bond to cover potential damages to people or property caused by the ESAs. This would eliminate a lot of them but also harm those who genuinely need them, for example for military service related PTSD, as it would only enable the wealthy to travel with ESAs.
It would be better if those with ESAs were required to be undergoing continued treatment for their disorders, such as a weekly psych appointment if one claimed an emotional need for the pet. For genuine service animals, presumably diabetics and those with epilepsy are under the regular care of a genuine medical professional.
A deposition could be interesting if the owner of the beast admitted to doing a two minute phone consultation or just filling out an online questionnaire in order to obtain the letter that supposedly documents the need for an ESA.
It could be interesting if potential employers would ask about ESAs and use the answers to decide whether the person is suitable for a stressful job (aren't all jobs stressful at times) or a job that might require travel.
Maybe the FA is now entitled to being an ESA lion or cougar to work so that it can eat any ESA dogs that are encountered? It could be trained to respond preemptively to the presence of a fake ESA vest.
Why can't other passengers get letters from qualified medical professionals stating that they have a fear of dogs and the prescribed remedy is a canine-free flight?
ADDED: We could require those with ESAs to post a huge bond to cover potential damages to people or property caused by the ESAs. This would eliminate a lot of them but also harm those who genuinely need them, for example for military service related PTSD, as it would only enable the wealthy to travel with ESAs.
It would be better if those with ESAs were required to be undergoing continued treatment for their disorders, such as a weekly psych appointment if one claimed an emotional need for the pet. For genuine service animals, presumably diabetics and those with epilepsy are under the regular care of a genuine medical professional.
A deposition could be interesting if the owner of the beast admitted to doing a two minute phone consultation or just filling out an online questionnaire in order to obtain the letter that supposedly documents the need for an ESA.
It could be interesting if potential employers would ask about ESAs and use the answers to decide whether the person is suitable for a stressful job (aren't all jobs stressful at times) or a job that might require travel.
Maybe the FA is now entitled to being an ESA lion or cougar to work so that it can eat any ESA dogs that are encountered? It could be trained to respond preemptively to the presence of a fake ESA vest.
Why can't other passengers get letters from qualified medical professionals stating that they have a fear of dogs and the prescribed remedy is a canine-free flight?
Last edited by MSPeconomist; Jul 25, 2019 at 6:26 am
Jul 25, 2019, 6:16 am
#32
Join Date: May 2011
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Not sure there’s any consistent policy on this topic...
My anecdote is the following:
On Christmas Eve 2014 I was flying a HNL-PHX redeye... I take my seat in the bulkhead (LUS A320 as I recall) and shut my eyes. Five minutes later, a woman with a basset hound sits in the middle seat... I grew up with a basset hound-and generally do like dogs-but there was not a chance in hell that I was going to fly overnight next to a panting, drooly basset.
I casually asked the FA if there were any non-middle seats open on the aircraft.. 2 minutes later she had me op-up’ed to F!
My anecdote is the following:
On Christmas Eve 2014 I was flying a HNL-PHX redeye... I take my seat in the bulkhead (LUS A320 as I recall) and shut my eyes. Five minutes later, a woman with a basset hound sits in the middle seat... I grew up with a basset hound-and generally do like dogs-but there was not a chance in hell that I was going to fly overnight next to a panting, drooly basset.
I casually asked the FA if there were any non-middle seats open on the aircraft.. 2 minutes later she had me op-up’ed to F!
Jul 25, 2019, 6:21 am
#33
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Moving the person with the ESA would likely be deemed discriminatory and that’s why the person with the allergy is moved.
Jul 25, 2019, 6:29 am
#34
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But why is it OK to discriminate against those with allergies? In fact, why would the allergy even need to be disclosed? One should just be able to say that there's a special medical need not to be seated near an animal. That would seem to parallel how other medical disabilities are handled.
Jul 25, 2019, 6:34 am
#35
Join Date: Dec 2009
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If a medical professional has certified the need for an ESA without ongoing physical interaction with the person concerned, do they not leave themselves open to being sued for malpractice, with potential loss of relevant licences?
Jul 25, 2019, 6:42 am
#36
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LOL I normally completely ignore the pop up ads, but anyone else notice the ads on this page cuz some computer ad program saw the thread title? I have three different ads on my page for ESA registries. 
Now I am not saying that some of these might not be real ESA registries, but could there be a chance at least one of these is an "Online sell you a ESA card for little Fluffy for a price" outfit? Jus wondering.
Here is one
Now I am not saying that some of these might not be real ESA registries, but could there be a chance at least one of these is an "Online sell you a ESA card for little Fluffy for a price" outfit? Jus wondering.
Here is one
Jul 25, 2019, 6:46 am
#37
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 129
I understand the desire and possible need for someone to fly with an ESA. That being said, where does it say that said pet/ESA needs to fly for free. I think that if you bring a pet/ESA that you should have to buy a seat for the creature. If Airlines did this, the sudden drop in ESA requests would drop. This is a creature that takes up space and unfortunately often the space of another passenger. Your need to have a huge dog that occupies space ends where my seat begins. NOW that I have said that, I have friends that train Guide Dogs for the Blind, true service animals are TRAINED and even though they are generally larger dogs manage to fold up into a small area and stay there until advised as they are "working". ESA's are not trained and are NOT service dogs. They are pets that like all pets give us humans a lot of comfort.
Jul 25, 2019, 7:27 am
#38
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I understand the desire and possible need for someone to fly with an ESA. That being said, where does it say that said pet/ESA needs to fly for free. I think that if you bring a pet/ESA that you should have to buy a seat for the creature. If Airlines did this, the sudden drop in ESA requests would drop. This is a creature that takes up space and unfortunately often the space of another passenger. Your need to have a huge dog that occupies space ends where my seat begins. NOW that I have said that, I have friends that train Guide Dogs for the Blind, true service animals are TRAINED and even though they are generally larger dogs manage to fold up into a small area and stay there until advised as they are "working". ESA's are not trained and are NOT service dogs. They are pets that like all pets give us humans a lot of comfort.
I have visited one of their rescue and command examination at all. Usually during the practice and training, all the dogs were doing extremely well. However, once weather and examiner present, almost all the dogs will have some issue that either fail or barely pass the exam
Therefore in short, I never trust the so call emotional service animal could be well behave at all...
Jul 25, 2019, 7:31 am
#39
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Start with me saying that I am a dog lover...completely devoted to our two dogs. However, let's be real. There is no such thing as an Emotional Support Animal. Sorry, if a person is so feeble minded that he or she needs an animal to keep it together, it would seem that confinement to an institution would be in order. I would posit that in every case the claim of needing "emotional support" is phony. Instead this is a person who wants free transport for the dog and wants to avoid paying to have the animal cared for while traveling. Said another way, the world worked just fine before some touchy feely moron invented the concept of emotional support animals.
Jul 25, 2019, 8:07 am
#40
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Start with me saying that I am a dog lover...completely devoted to our two dogs. However, let's be real. There is no such thing as an Emotional Support Animal. Sorry, if a person is so feeble minded that he or she needs an animal to keep it together, it would seem that confinement to an institution would be in order. I would posit that in every case the claim of needing "emotional support" is phony. Instead this is a person who wants free transport for the dog and wants to avoid paying to have the animal cared for while traveling. Said another way, the world worked just fine before some touchy feely moron invented the concept of emotional support animals.
Jul 25, 2019, 8:18 am
#41
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Airline *and* owner. The airline has a positive duty of care towards employees and if they are being slack about allowing any old animal on board as an "emotional support animal" then they bear some of responsibility. Up to a court to decide how much, and for how much.
5 stitches is not "nipped" by the dog.
5 stitches is not "nipped" by the dog.
This ESA stuff needs to end.
Jul 25, 2019, 8:56 am
#42
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Start with me saying that I am a dog lover...completely devoted to our two dogs. However, let's be real. There is no such thing as an Emotional Support Animal. Sorry, if a person is so feeble minded that he or she needs an animal to keep it together, it would seem that confinement to an institution would be in order. I would posit that in every case the claim of needing "emotional support" is phony. Instead this is a person who wants free transport for the dog and wants to avoid paying to have the animal cared for while traveling. Said another way, the world worked just fine before some touchy feely moron invented the concept of emotional support animals.
Jul 25, 2019, 8:56 am
#43
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This "problem" is largely one of the airlines' own making, in their greedy pursuit for ancillary revenues. I think the in-cabin pet fee is something like $150 each way. More than many tickets, and the dog doesn't get a seat. It also needs to stay in a carrier under the seat. Now obviously the issues in recent years with transporting pets as cargo has compounded this somewhat, but I don't think *that* many people want to travel with their 50lb dog. (Most ESAs I see are lap pets, but of course there are exceptions).
Charge no more than $25 each-way (maybe plus a refundable security deposit?), raise the bar higher for ESA clearance, and I think a lot of the problem goes away (to the extent it's really a problem -- I read a LOT more about misbehaving passengers than misbehaving dogs, but maybe that's just because there are more passengers flying).
Jul 25, 2019, 9:08 am
#44
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Many dogs trained to assist individuals with PTSD are trained service animals. They are trained to keep space open around the person to prevent close encounters that may trigger an attack. They also are trained to sense and respond to anxiety to prevent an escalation of symptoms, as well respond to events known to trigger an attack to prevent/reduce reactions.
Jul 25, 2019, 9:17 am
#45
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Many dogs trained to assist individuals with PTSD are trained service animals. They are trained to keep space open around the person to prevent close encounters that may trigger an attack. They also are trained to sense and respond to anxiety to prevent an escalation of symptoms, as well respond to events known to trigger an attack to prevent/reduce reactions.
However, if they're trained to keep space around their owners, itn't this a risk in inevitably crowded environments such as an airplane? The dog could seee biting a FA or seatmate as just doing their job.
BTW, are ESAs allowed to be up on airline seats and armrests? I thought they were supposed to stay on the floor.
BTW, are ESAs allowed to be up on airline seats and armrests? I thought they were supposed to stay on the floor.