NEED ADVICE: Cancelled flight and additional expenses
Jul 10, 2019, 9:30 pm
#31
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 477
While many understand your frustration (myself included), to say AA “owes you something” and needs to “compensate” you is a bit much. Could they and should they make a goodwill gesture? Sure...and they probably will, but they don’t need to compensate you. They would have ultimately gotten you to IAD, which is the only duty they had to you. They would have done that had you not decided to get there some other way. Anything beyond that is beyond them.
And this is someone who is a chronic complainer to AA customer service. I’ve certainly learned the difference between asking compensation versus a goodwill gesture.
Jul 10, 2019, 9:34 pm
#32
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No one get compensation for weather/ATC. Some thing as goodwill at very best
Different country and on a different alliance
Self connecting domestic to long haul international on different airlines (on the same day) has risks:- for the OP it went bad. That's life!!. But may have saved a few $.
Jul 10, 2019, 9:56 pm
#33
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: AA EXP, AA Million Miles, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,586
What I was referring here is being able to hand the bag back to me in DFW after the flight was cancelled at 1AM.My understanding is once a flight a cancelled the customer has a choice to not travel anymore and in that case the bag should be returned to customer at point of origin. Also, irrespective of whether they are required to deliver the bag to CPT or not once the commit (not once but 3 times) they must live by that commitment or atleast tell the customer bluntly that it is not our responsibility to deliver to CPT.
In the end we did complete our trip as planned but the bags never got delivered to us in South Afrrica and we managed out of the stuff in our carry-on luggage and making some essential purchases to compensate for the rest.
We arrived back home on Sunday and the bag was promptly delivered back home the same day. It was being held at DFW airport even though i gave them my Cape Town hotel address.
We arrived back home on Sunday and the bag was promptly delivered back home the same day. It was being held at DFW airport even though i gave them my Cape Town hotel address.
In all this you have two possible complaints:
1) The cancellation of your original IAD flight (which unless I am mistaken you've not yet told us the reason for)
2) Poor communication from agents about the rolling delay and luggage return
That's it. A short, calm email to AA customer relations (that doesn't mention anything about the separate CPT ticket) might result in goodwill amount of miles added to your account. That's all you should expect or have any reasonable expectation of. Up to you if you think that is worth pursuing.
As noted elsewhere you are probably entitled to a refund of the original DFW-IAD.
Jul 10, 2019, 10:33 pm
#34
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 477
You are missing the point. You are calling the airline out for being unreasonable (which they are in parts of this). You need to recognize that you also being unreasonable in parts of your interactions with them. Should be obvious that AA had no obligation or reasonable likelihood to oblige your request to send the bag to CPT. You just confuse the situation further by even introducing that request:
In all this you have two possible complaints:
1) The cancellation of your original IAD flight (which unless I am mistaken you've not yet told us the reason for)
2) Poor communication from agents about the rolling delay and luggage return
That's it. A short, calm email to AA customer relations (that doesn't mention anything about the separate CPT ticket) might result in goodwill amount of miles added to your account. That's all you should expect or have any reasonable expectation of. Up to you if you think that is worth pursuing.
As noted elsewhere you are probably entitled to a refund of the original DFW-IAD.
In all this you have two possible complaints:
1) The cancellation of your original IAD flight (which unless I am mistaken you've not yet told us the reason for)
2) Poor communication from agents about the rolling delay and luggage return
That's it. A short, calm email to AA customer relations (that doesn't mention anything about the separate CPT ticket) might result in goodwill amount of miles added to your account. That's all you should expect or have any reasonable expectation of. Up to you if you think that is worth pursuing.
As noted elsewhere you are probably entitled to a refund of the original DFW-IAD.
Jul 10, 2019, 10:51 pm
#35
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
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Quite interesting that you think my request is unreasonable when all 3 times I contacted AA baggage service agents they not only agreed to forward the baggage but also explained how the procedure works and that a world tracer has to submitted from final destination. Not only that the procedure described by SAS in IAD, Swiss in ZRH and SAA in CPT matched exactly the procedure described by AA voluntarily. 6 diff people across 4 diff airlines in 3 separate continents were exactly in sync as to the procedure all airlines must follow.
It’s certainly within the realm of possibility for individuals to recover your baggage and take it over to the next airline, but if you ever get this to occur be certain to buy some lottery tickets, because it is your very lucky day.
What if I have separate tickets in the same PNR for itineraries with
American to a non-oneworld carrier?
"Our policy on American to non-oneworld airline tickets has not changed.
We will not through check customers or bags even if the tickets are in
the same PNR."
What would be the bag charges if the customer holds separate tickets
in separate PNRs?
American will not through check a customer’s bag, regardless if it is
a oneworld carrier. The customer will need to collect their bag at
the final destination on the AA ticket. They will pay for the bag on the
second ticket when they recheck it. This may involve exiting the secure
area, then claiming and re-checking the bags. The Minimum Connecting
Time (MCT) will usually not be sufficient when the customer has separate
tickets issued for each airline.
International flights on separate PNRs (or to non-oneworld carriers) will usually require claiming bags, clearing customs and rechecking bags on another carrier to be continued to their next destination.
American to a non-oneworld carrier?
"Our policy on American to non-oneworld airline tickets has not changed.
We will not through check customers or bags even if the tickets are in
the same PNR."
What would be the bag charges if the customer holds separate tickets
in separate PNRs?
American will not through check a customer’s bag, regardless if it is
a oneworld carrier. The customer will need to collect their bag at
the final destination on the AA ticket. They will pay for the bag on the
second ticket when they recheck it. This may involve exiting the secure
area, then claiming and re-checking the bags. The Minimum Connecting
Time (MCT) will usually not be sufficient when the customer has separate
tickets issued for each airline.
International flights on separate PNRs (or to non-oneworld carriers) will usually require claiming bags, clearing customs and rechecking bags on another carrier to be continued to their next destination.
Last edited by JDiver; Jul 10, 2019 at 11:00 pm
Jul 11, 2019, 12:39 am
#36
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 255
Yes, they would have ultimately got me there but the question is in what timeframe. Like I said if I was attending a wedding, conference, business meeting which was a time bound event what good would it do get to your destination after the event is completely over. In all likelihood I would completely cancel the trip and would definitely expect a full refund and some form of compensation.
However, there is no “compensation” due. They are not bound by law or their conditions of carriage to provide any “compensation”. The customer service representative responding to your email may regret the inconvenience caused and provide a “goodwill gesture” but this is a choice, not a requirement on AA’s part. Sending a request asking for “compensation” might get you nothing beyond the refund. Asking for a “goodwill gesture” for the inconvenience caused is the better way to go.
Jul 11, 2019, 12:44 am
#37
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 255
Quite interesting that you think my request is unreasonable when all 3 times I contacted AA baggage service agents they not only agreed to forward the baggage but also explained how the procedure works and that a world tracer has to submitted from final destination. Not only that the procedure described by SAS in IAD, Swiss in ZRH and SAA in CPT matched exactly the procedure described by AA voluntarily. 6 diff people across 4 diff airlines in 3 separate continents were exactly in sync as to the procedure all airlines must follow.
Jul 11, 2019, 2:20 am
#38
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: AA EXP, AA Million Miles, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,586
Not only that the procedure described by SAS in IAD, Swiss in ZRH and SAA in CPT matched exactly the procedure described by AA voluntarily. 6 diff people across 4 diff airlines in 3 separate continents were exactly in sync as to the procedure all airlines must follow.
As JDiver said - AA does not check or transfer luggage across separate PNRs. Period.
In this case your bag was never even checked to CPT. So once the IROPS began there was precisely zero chance AA was going to send your bag to South Africa.
Your ticket was to IAD. Your bag was checked to IAD. It's reasonable to expect AA to give it back to you at DFW after the cancellation. Expecting AA to voluntarily send it to CPT is beyond.
Anything to do with the CPT ticket is completely irrelevant to any complaint you lodge with AA. You made the decision to book separate tickets. Usually it works out. This time it bit you. Live with the consequences.
Jul 11, 2019, 8:04 am
#39
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,238
So if you're taking a cruise from, say, MIA that then stops in, say, St. Thomas, and your baggage is delayed/temporarily lost by AA on your flight to MIA, the airline doesn't have to get your bags to you in STT? Which basically means no luggage for the entire cruise? And if it's a one-way and you're flying back from, say, SJU on another airline, AA doesn't have to fly your bags to your home? So they're stuck in MIA?
Or, say, you're flying to ZRH but then going to Zermatt skiing for a week which is a 3+ hour train ride. Don't they still have to get your bags to you there?
Where is the line drawn?
Or, say, you're flying to ZRH but then going to Zermatt skiing for a week which is a 3+ hour train ride. Don't they still have to get your bags to you there?
Where is the line drawn?
Jul 11, 2019, 8:21 am
#40
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There were many things that i felt were wrong:
Once the flight is canceled not being able to hand the bags back to the customer is unacceptable.
- Parking a plane on the tarmac for 1 hour should not cause fuel shortage for the flight
- Why not cancel the flight immediately if you don't have alternate crew or not knowing where you will get the crew from is utter lack of planning.
- Lying to the customers that the crew is on its way and delay the flights 15 mins at a time is clearly ingenuous.
- Gate Agent lying that you can collect your bags from bag claim
- Being told by baggage claim agent that it is too late and bagroom is closed so we can't deliver bags back to their customers
- Baggage service agent writing very specific instructions including flight numbers and airport codes as to where the bag needs needs to be routed in the morning and then not following those instructions in the morning and instead sending the bags to PIT.
Once the flight is canceled not being able to hand the bags back to the customer is unacceptable.
So if you're taking a cruise from, say, MIA that then stops in, say, St. Thomas, and your baggage is delayed/temporarily lost by AA on your flight to MIA, the airline doesn't have to get your bags to you in STT? Which basically means no luggage for the entire cruise? And if it's a one-way and you're flying back from, say, SJU on another airline, AA doesn't have to fly your bags to your home? So they're stuck in MIA?
Or, say, you're flying to ZRH but then going to Zermatt skiing for a week which is a 3+ hour train ride. Don't they still have to get your bags to you there?
Where is the line drawn?
Or, say, you're flying to ZRH but then going to Zermatt skiing for a week which is a 3+ hour train ride. Don't they still have to get your bags to you there?
Where is the line drawn?
But when it comes to a bag checked from DFW to IAD on one ticket, I think expecting it to be transferred to a different carrier on a different alliance on a different ticket isn't anywhere close.
I get the frustration and appreciate OP had good plans that would have worked if lighting hadn't hit the TRACON at DFW and shut down all air traffic in or out of Dallas
Jul 11, 2019, 8:23 am
#41
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 477
You are missing the point. You are calling the airline out for being unreasonable (which they are in parts of this). You need to recognize that you also being unreasonable in parts of your interactions with them. Should be obvious that AA had no obligation or reasonable likelihood to oblige your request to send the bag to CPT. You just confuse the situation further by even introducing that request:
In all this you have two possible complaints:
1) The cancellation of your original IAD flight (which unless I am mistaken you've not yet told us the reason for)
2) Poor communication from agents about the rolling delay and luggage return
That's it. A short, calm email to AA customer relations (that doesn't mention anything about the separate CPT ticket) might result in goodwill amount of miles added to your account. That's all you should expect or have any reasonable expectation of. Up to you if you think that is worth pursuing.
As noted elsewhere you are probably entitled to a refund of the original DFW-IAD.
In all this you have two possible complaints:
1) The cancellation of your original IAD flight (which unless I am mistaken you've not yet told us the reason for)
2) Poor communication from agents about the rolling delay and luggage return
That's it. A short, calm email to AA customer relations (that doesn't mention anything about the separate CPT ticket) might result in goodwill amount of miles added to your account. That's all you should expect or have any reasonable expectation of. Up to you if you think that is worth pursuing.
As noted elsewhere you are probably entitled to a refund of the original DFW-IAD.
American Airlines very specifically states it will not interline checked bags across separate PNRs - even if the separate flights are AA. For those of us who fly AA a lot, over many years, the idea that AA is obligated to deliver Che KEF baggage to IAD on one PNR and then interline it to another alliance, airline and separately ticketed flight is just not at all realistic. Presumably, you were given some lip service - but your bags weren’t forwarded on to ZA, and that’s the proof in the pudding, I think.
It’s certainly within the realm of possibility for individuals to recover your baggage and take it over to the next airline, but if you ever get this to occur be certain to buy some lottery tickets, because it is your very lucky day.
Here’s a link to a PDF that details related AA checked baggage policy (or see below).
It’s certainly within the realm of possibility for individuals to recover your baggage and take it over to the next airline, but if you ever get this to occur be certain to buy some lottery tickets, because it is your very lucky day.
Here’s a link to a PDF that details related AA checked baggage policy (or see below).
Jul 11, 2019, 8:25 am
#42
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IMO AA's real failure here was the refusal to give OP the bag back after his/her flight was cancelled. They can't just cancel a bunch of flights and hold the luggage hostage.
Given that, they owe OP something, either going above and beyond to deliver bag to the OP or a significant customer service gesture sufficient to cover OP's cost of purchases at the destination plus a bit extra for the inconvenience.
Given that, they owe OP something, either going above and beyond to deliver bag to the OP or a significant customer service gesture sufficient to cover OP's cost of purchases at the destination plus a bit extra for the inconvenience.
Jul 11, 2019, 8:26 am
#43
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 477
Jul 11, 2019, 8:40 am
#44
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OP has made two separate statements about the bags. First, he asked that the bags be sent to IAD so that he could claim them and check them in for his onwards separate ticket. Then he says that he asked AA to send them to CPT.
But, this does not work. As far as AA is concerned, OP cancelled his ticket and could not claim his bags. Either AA would arrange to deliver them back to OP at his home or reimburse OP for a trip to the airport to claim them. However, sending them on after a voluntary separation to IAD where OP was no longer ticketed and then arranging for them to be sent onwards on an international flight where OP was not present is simply not going to happen for general policy, safety, and security reasons.
This is entirely different than the situation where OP flies to IAD and the bags don't make it. In that case, AA will have them delivered. In CPT if need be. But, the key is that OP would have been involuntarily separated from his bags.
But, this does not work. As far as AA is concerned, OP cancelled his ticket and could not claim his bags. Either AA would arrange to deliver them back to OP at his home or reimburse OP for a trip to the airport to claim them. However, sending them on after a voluntary separation to IAD where OP was no longer ticketed and then arranging for them to be sent onwards on an international flight where OP was not present is simply not going to happen for general policy, safety, and security reasons.
This is entirely different than the situation where OP flies to IAD and the bags don't make it. In that case, AA will have them delivered. In CPT if need be. But, the key is that OP would have been involuntarily separated from his bags.
Jul 11, 2019, 8:44 am
#45
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 477
Good question on the line. In your example for Zermatt, I don't think there is any question AA will send your bags there. Not sure on your STT example.. although I'd hate to have my luggage chasing a cruise ship around the Caribbean ... what if it misses you in STT? Do they need to fly it to the next island?
But when it comes to a bag checked from DFW to IAD on one ticket, I think expecting it to be transferred to a different carrier on a different alliance on a different ticket isn't anywhere close.
I get the frustration and appreciate OP had good plans that would have worked if lighting hadn't hit the TRACON at DFW and shut down all air traffic in or out of Dallas
But when it comes to a bag checked from DFW to IAD on one ticket, I think expecting it to be transferred to a different carrier on a different alliance on a different ticket isn't anywhere close.
I get the frustration and appreciate OP had good plans that would have worked if lighting hadn't hit the TRACON at DFW and shut down all air traffic in or out of Dallas
The key difference is "reasonable effort". If i am driving 3 hours to a resort after landing at an airport and they have no contract with a local service or one does not exist I would not expect them to go find a local company to make it happen. In my case there are very standard procedures available to make it happen with ease if they wanted to amends and took some imitative.